An Endless Pursuit Of ‘A Bit Of Magic’ For The O’Callaghans At Tally-Ho Stud

When Michelangelo sculpted David, you'd imagine he took the time to stand back, blow the dust off of his brow and marvel at his masterpiece, wouldn't you?

Like David, Tally-Ho Stud has taken years of hard chiseling but you must be living in Lalaland if you think Tony O'Callaghan is a man for slowing down and taking in all that has been achieved. 

If there's one thing O'Callaghan hates more than arrogance it's idleness. With 200 mares on the farm, considerably more yearlings and foals coming through the system, a sizable breeze-up consignment and, of course, the bread and butter that are the stallions to tend to, there isn't a whole pile of time left over in a day for slacking. 

But what drives a man, who has an uncanny knack of avoiding questions he doesn't want to answer–including those about his age–to attack each morning the same as his sons Roger, 43, and Henry, 41?

“I like action,” he says, unapologetically. “I do. They say there are two chairs you should never sit in; the electric chair and the armchair. They're not putting me into a bin any time soon! Why do some people live to do nothing? I can never understand it.”

The O'Callaghans live for the game. When Kodiac, the horse Roger describes as being “the man who paid for the place” strides out of his box, the lads wear a smile that neither sex nor drugs could supply. 

Tony O'Callaghan: “When the bad year comes, suck it up and move on.” | Tattersalls

Apparently “there's a queue of breeders” wanting to use Kodiac's Group 1-winning son Good Guess, who is new to the roster for 2024, but it wasn't always like this. Before Kodiac, Mehmas, Cotai Glory, Inns Of Court, Persian Force, Starman and now Good Guess, there were tougher times at Tally-Ho.

Blues Traveller and Mac's Imp are some of the earliest hard luck stories. Both stallions met a premature end just as their stock were starting to get going. Danetime, too, was on the cusp of becoming a proper stallion when he died whilst covering on Southern Hemisphere time in Australia. Red Clubs and more recently Society Rock are others who never got a fair crack.

“Danetime was when things started to happen for us,” Tony explains. “Then we got a list of them. Society Rock was doing well when he died and Sir Prancealot did okay as well, but Kodiac was the one who really took off.”

He added, “Danetime might have done the same thing, you know. He was only nine when he died. He had the winner of the Prix Morny two years running—Myboycharlie and then Bushranger. That was a shock when he died.”

So you could say it has been a triumph of perseverance?

“Oh we've kept at it. We've never changed direction. When the bad year comes, suck it up and move on.”

For many people in this industry, 2023 will go down as a bad year. The smaller breeder, who has been a huge part of the success story here, struggled on the whole. But if it's sympathy you're after at the O'Callaghan family's kitchen table, or as Tony's wife Anne describes it, “the engine room,” you've come to the wrong place. 

“It's up to you as a breeder to correct things and not go around blaming everyone bar yourself,” Tony says. “Some people will switch off and become disillusioned. I never get disillusioned no matter how bad the sales are. I never come home disillusioned. I come home blaming myself.”

There may be a lack of sympathy on offer but there's no shortage of encouragement. The business model is simple; try to make everyone–big or small–a winner.

Henry explains, “We're in this for the long haul and we don't take shortcuts. We try to treat people right and, if we both win, that's how you really succeed. There can be repeat business if that happens.”

It is an honourable way of conducting business. And it is one of the reasons why Ger Lyons named Tony The Gent after the man himself. A Whatsapp message to the trainer confirmed as much.

“He was, because in the dictionary beside the word gentleman, you see a picture of Tony O'C,” comes the reply from Lyons, swiftly followed by, “lovely family that.”

There can be a price to be paid when only dealing in facts, though. Some will confuse the no-nonsense approach to business as being cold but the reality is the complete opposite. 

It was this scribe's great pleasure to kill more than a few hours with Roger in Cincinnati Airport during a layover on the way home from the Breeders' Cup a couple of years back.

When a young couple across the bar endured a nightmare episode when both of their cards declined, it was Roger who thought nothing of jumping into action to settle the bill of the two people he'd never set eyes on before in order to prevent further blushes.

'That's my good deed done for the year,' he chirped, before sitting back down at the table. A chip off the old block.

The similarities between Roger and his old man was clear to be seen at the Tattersalls Ireland September Yearling Sale last year as well. Less than 48 hours after Tally-Ho and Archie St George turned a $550,000 Into Mischief colt foal purchase into a $1.8-million yearling, O'Callaghan was back to the grindstone.

A simple, 'well done in America, Roger,' was met with a, 'now on to the next one,' in that inimitable droll tone. Insatiable. 

Tony and Anne O'Callaghan | Tattersalls

Anne comments on what drives her boys, “We're the lucky ones. We're the ones who have something to achieve and to look forward to every day. Imagine grinding your way to work behind the wheel after having dropped your kids to creche. You're having your cup of coffee, or maybe a cigarette, and listening to the droning bad news on the radio. We get out of bed, roll down the hill, step out into the yard, and bingo. Light on. Let's get at it.”

Henry concurs and provides his own insight into the motivation behind this winner-producing machine, when saying, “You have a chance of a bit of magic. That's the great thing about this business. When you're involved with a good horse, there's no better feeling.”

The hope is that Good Guess, who claimed the notable scalp of 2,000 Guineas winner Chaldean when storming to Prix Jean Prat glory at Deauville last summer, can be the latest good horse that the O'Callaghans will be associated with. 

The horse had been on Tally-Ho's radar ever since Cheveley Park Stud flagged that they had a good Kodiac at the Tattersalls October Book 1 Yearling Sale in 2021. They were right. 

Good Guess went on to make 420,000gns to Sebastien Desmontils and the O'Callaghans have been tracking his progression ever since. In fact, so sure they were that Good Guess would be a good fit at Tally-Ho, a deal was done not long after he had crossed the line in front in that Group 1. 

“Sure he'd be whipped from underneath you,” says Tony, explaining why there wasn't even time to hop on a plane to get the deal done. Instead, it was trashed out on the phone. “These things are done quickly.”

Good Guess | Scoop Dyga

Good Guess | Scoop Dyga

It has been well-reported that, in order to secure Good Guess, a lot of money needed to change hands. 

“You've got to try and win the lottery. Pay your money, take your chance,” is how Roger sums up the transaction. Henry adds, “It's grand when you're right. There's never a bad time to buy a good horse but then there's never a good time to buy a bad horse. If you can buy a good horse, what you pay for it ultimately doesn't matter. The economics of this game, it's unique, isn't it?”

He adds, “Given how much stallions are costing at the moment, you need them to work in order for the whole thing to make economic sense. It's a big test of how bad you want a horse if you are prepared to send it a clatter of your own mares.”

Good Guess, along with the rest of the stallion roster at Tally-Ho, won't be lacking in that department. 

Tony explains, “When the stallions do well, it's huge. But, when the stallions do bad, it's an absolute nightmare. When they don't click, you suffer. There's a queue up for Good Guess but we'll support him as well. It's very simple; back your own.

“The way it works is, you look after everyone else first. Whenever we can get a slot for him, we'll send him a mare. We'll send him between 30 and 50 of our own mares but we won't know how many until the end of May. “

On what makes Good Guess an attractive stallion proposition, he adds, “Sure you could see below, his action and his physique. The bone structure is there and he has a nice big eye and a nice head. He floats around the yard there. Those are his strong points. Everyone who has come to see him, they all love him.”

Could he be the heir to the throne?

“Never,” says Tony, half-insulted. “I don't think we'll ever get an heir to that horse. We'd love one. But I don't think we'll ever find another Kodiac.”

And with that, the master of Tally-Ho leaves the table to tend to more pressing duties in the yard. He's not one for sitting, you know. But was he always like that?

“I'll never forget I was covering a mare with Dad,” Roger recalls. “He was holding the mare and I had Danetime. When Danetime went to get up on the mare, she reared. Dad had the lead rope wrapped around his thumb and the thumb went with the lead rope. Severed it. Straight off. 

“I'll never forget it. And then, when he went into the hospital, all he was telling me was, 'I'm really sorry.' I was saying, 'what are you sorry for?' 

“Anyway, he did a night in hospital but was back in the yard the following morning. He had a big bandage on his hand out cleaning water troughs that day. But what happened next? Didn't the f**king bucket fall over and of course he went to grab it. Bang. It bounced off the thumb. 

“Oh Jesus, I'll never forget it. The poor f**ker nearly died with the pain. But as soon as he could get back going, he was out in that yard. You can count the number of days on one hand that Dad has taken off work in his life. Seriously. He just loves it.” 

And that, ladies and gentleman, is the difference. 

Tony O'Callaghan on…….

Caught U Looking

I'd been watching her going around the back ring at the Goffs Autumn Yearling Sale and was wondering whether or not I should bid for her. Next thing, she went into the ring and Peter Nolan bought her for Noel Meade. I said I'd take her. They told me the most I could have was a half, so I took half. She's a nice filly. I'm hoping she will go on this season but we'll see, won't we? I'm hoping she'll stay a mile plus. We could have sold her 10 times over but we'll roll the dice. I'd be hoping she can stay a mile-and-a-half. That's what I'd like. She has plenty of size and scope. It would be nice to have a runner in the Oaks. 

Working the sales

There are people giving out about the industry but, when they go to the sales, they are fiddling around and they wouldn't do any homework. A lot of the trainers are like that. Willie Mullins started with eight or nine horses. Gordon Elliott started with one or two. When you go to the sales, do you go to zone in or you go to be sociable for the day? You can only do one or the other. You can't do both. If you want to buy something, you have to pay attention, not be in and out of the bar. I've nothing against that but it's gone a bit like that. The sales are competitive. We're there to work.

National Hunt

We always had National Hunt horses going back years ago. I quite like National Hunt horses. As the fella says, what do you do in January? I always felt the first day of Spring was Thyestes Day. Long ago, when we were young, Thyestes Day marked the start of Spring. 

Polarisation

It is gone polarised but you can always sell a nice horse. It's always been the model first for me. If you can get the sire as well, then you are away. The model will always get you out of trouble, though. 

 

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‘He Could Be What The Market Is Looking For,’ – Heavyweights Weigh In On Stallion Trail

Whether you're a trainer, a pre-trainer, a breeder or just a general racing nut, it seems as though the Irish Stallion Trail was the place to be on Friday and Saturday. But how much can be gleaned from two days of stallion parades? Quite a lot, actually. 

Relationships have been forged and business has been done on the Trail and luminaries of the industry Johnny Murtagh, Dick Brabazon, Guillaume Vitse and Craig McCracken were left singing the praises of Irish Thoroughbred Marketing [ITM] for what proved to be another stellar weekend. 

Vitse was a notable force on the Trail. Breeder of Unquestionable (Fr) (Wootton Bassett {GB}), winner of the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf, the master of Normandie Breeding was at Coolmore Stud on Friday where the Frenchman promised to make the most of his visit to Ireland.

Vitse said, “It was lovely to see Wootton Bassett. We tried to see him last year but obviously he wasn't here because he was in Australia. We also went to Rathbarry, Castlehyde, Coolmore and Ballylinch today. We are going to Yeomanstown, Kildangan, the Irish National Stud and Tally-Ho Stud on Saturday.”

He added, “I am a big fan of Blackbeard (Ire). He is a stunning horse. I really fancy him. He is just what my wife [Camille] and myself love in a horse. He's the perfect mover and he has everything. I love him. 

“I like quality horses and this guy, from my point of view, has so much quality. I really like Sottsass (Fr) as well. He's another really good mover. He has a short back and is very strong and was a champion racehorse as well. Sottsass and Blackbeard are very different horses but we like both of them.”

While France offers the Route des Etalons, the Irish Stallion Trail is a slightly newer phenomenon with over 30 stallion farms opening its doors to visitors across the two days and Vitse voiced his support of the initiative. 

He said, “This is my first time doing the Stallion Trail. It was pretty cool to go around and see the stallions. I think the Stallion Trail, just like the Route des Etalons, provides you with a good opportunity to meet a lot of people. I think it's a very good initiative and now we have a good idea about the stallions we like. When we get back home, we will discuss with our partners the right pick for our mares.”

Asked what stallions he was most looking forward to viewing on Sunday, Vitse added, “Mehmas (Ire). I am really looking forward to seeing him. I am looking forward to seeing Good Guess (GB) and Kodiac (GB) as well. It is probably the last few years we can use Kodiac so it will be good to see him.”

Leading Irish breeder Craig McCracken of McCracken Farms, top trainer Johnny Murtagh and renowned pre-trainer Dick Brabazon were others who reported to have gotten huge value from the two-day event. 

McCracken said, “I've been to Coolmore, Yeomanstown, Tally-Ho, Starfield and Kildangan. Of the cheaper stallions, I'd give Dubawi Legend (Ire) a chance. I have a breeding right in the horse but he did finish second in a Dewhurst and he is a son of Dubawi (Ire) so I can't see him not working. He has every chance at a price. Good Guess (GB) was one of the main takeouts of the weekend for me. He's a very slick horse, a lovely cross between Kodiac (GB) and Pivotal (GB). He could be what the market is looking for. He's a very obvious one for me. At our level, and of the stallions we can afford, I'd be weighing in behind Good Guess, Little Big Bear (Ire) and Native Trail (Ire). Those are the ones who have caught our imagination.”

He added, “I'd be a big fan of the weekend. I mean, in what other industry would you get it? Would the manager of your local football club get the opportunity to pick the brains of Pep Guardiola? The answer is no. Take Mrs Tally-Ho [Anne O'Callaghan] for example. That woman could run the country. For me to have the opportunity to run my thoughts through some of the best in the business, that has to be worth something, so the weekend is of huge value to me.”

It wasn't just the breeders who were out in force. Murtagh and Brabazon were other notable figures to be getting the miles in with the latter revealing the weekend provided a huge networking opportunity.

Brabazon said, “I have one mare and, while I am unlikely to be using some of the top stallions, my clients are using the stallions and it's very important for me to be able to talk to them and say that I have seen the stallions. That's what's important. You see the good points and the bad points and you're clued in to what traits they might pass on to their progeny. 

“Also, when you see horses on the racetrack, it's fascinating to see how they have developed as stallions. Paddington (GB) for example, he's a fine-looking horse but you can still see the racehorse in him, and I can't wait to go back and see him next year when you will see the stallion in him. The other thing I became very aware of is that Siyouni (Fr) is becoming a very important influence. You have Paddington and St Mark's Basilica (Fr) at Coolmore. If you went back a few years, he didn't exist. Now, he's a very important influence. We're slowly seeing the changeover from Galileo (Ire).”

He added, “I did quite a bit of small bits of business on the Trail. I bumped into clients at Ballylinch and we got to talk about their horses. It's an important networking opportunity and I think it's wonderful. We should open up the training yards, open up the studs, and open up the industry more going forward. We're building up the interest in the industry in the sport over those two days and that can't be a bad thing.

“The studs are great that way. I'll give an example, I was down at Coolmore and, the group in front of us, a lot of the visitors had special needs. There was nobody rushing them through or anything like that. They got the same treatment as everyone and it wasn't a case of Coolmore selling a breeding right or anything like that. I think that shows a bit of class from Coolmore and fair play to them for providing everyone on the tour with the same level of care and attention.”

Murtagh has won some of the best races around the world as a jockey. Think Sinndar (Ire), Yeats (Ire) and High Chaparral (Ire). In his role as a trainer, he was busy scouting some of the new kids on the block and he wasn't disappointed.

He said, “We have one mare here belonging to us and I just went down to Kildangan Stud to have a look at some of the stallions I never saw before. I never saw Blue Point (Ire) before and, given he had a phenomenal year, I was keen to see him. On the Friday of the tour, you probably get more of the breeders in attendance while the Saturday is more of a casual racing fan. But, listen, as trainers, we probably don't get around to see these wonderful stud farms as much as we'd like. There were a lot of nice horses on show and we'll probably go and see some of the stallions at the Irish National Stud on Saturday as well.”

Asked about his thoughts on some of the younger sires coming through, Murtagh said, “We've a King Of Change, an Arizona, an Earthlight and a few others by first-season sires. We try to buy a few first-season sires because you never know who is going to be the next superstar. We buy the yearlings on spec. We went last year to the sales with the idea of buying two-year-old types and we bought Havana Greys, Kodiacs, Mehmases, Ardads and Oasis Dreams. You know, we have two-year-old types and we go and buy as many as we can on spec then we try to sell them when we get back. It's a tough business and we put our own money up front but we buy the horses we like and you need to have those two-year-old types.”

 

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Blue Point 2-1 Favourite To Land First-Season Sire Honours

Blue Point (Ire) has been installed as the 2-1 favourite to be crowned leading first-season Flat sire in Britain and Ireland by Paddy Power.

Ballyhane Stud's Soldier's Call (GB) has been inserted at 5-2 next best in the betting while Coolmore's Ten Sovereigns (Ire) has been quoted at odds of 3-1. Tally-Ho Stud, responsible for two of the past three champion first-season sires Mehmas (Ire) and Cotai Glory (GB), are represented by 4-1 chance Inns Of Court (Ire). It's 10-1 the field.

Blue Point stands at Kildangan Stud for €35,000 having started off on a fee of €45,000 in 2020. The son of Shamardal was a smart 2-year-old, as he showed when winning the G2 Gimcrack S., but he progressed with age and landed the G1 King's Stand S. and G1 Diamond Jubilee S. in the same week at Royal Ascot as a 5-year-old.

Of the 64 yearlings by Blue Point to sell at public auction last season, they averaged just over €100,000, and included a €420,000 filly bought by MV Magnier from Mountain View Stud at the Goffs Orby Sale.

Soldier's Call has been hotly-tipped to get off to a fast start with his juvenile runners this year. A speedball of a 2-year-old himself, Soldier's Call won the Windsor Castle S. at Royal Ascot, and the G2 Flying Childers S. at Doncaster before running an excellent third, beaten just a neck against hardened sprinters, in the G1 Prix de l'Abbaye at ParisLongchamp.

Speaking to TDN Europe at the recent Irish Thoroughbred Stallion Trail, Ballyhane boss Joe Foley nominated two juveniles to follow from the stallion who stands for €7,5000 at the County Carlow outfit.

Foley said, “We're proud to have Soldier's Call. We're happy with him and we're looking forward to seeing his progeny race and I am sure every other stallion man is looking forward to their stallion's progeny race as well. All will be revealed at the end of the year.”

“There is a colt out of Alicia Darcy (Ire) (Sir Prancealot {Ire}), who was a good race filly, and he has gone to Karl Burke. He's beautiful and everybody loves him. He's one we'd be keen on.”

He added, “There's a colt out of Rush (GB) (Compton Place {GB}), who Kevin Blake bred, who we bought at Doncaster for £105,000. He's a really good-looking, chunky 2-year-old and everyone loves him as well. He's gone to Archie Watson. They'd be the two I'd pick but I'm sure I've missed the best one.”

Invincible Army (Ire) was subject to similarly bullish reports on the Stallion Trail, with Rob O'Callaghan saying that he had every confidence in the Yeomanstown-based sire this year. However, Paddy Power have largely ignored Invincible Army's claims by pricing him up at 25-1.

O'Callaghan said, “We're very confident with Invincible Army. He's got great stock coming through and has a lot going for him with over 130 2-year-olds this year. They are well-bred horses and they've got the strength, the action and they have gone to the right homes as well. Karl Burke, Richard Hannon, Ger Lyons, Richard Fahey and Clive Cox have all bought yearlings by him and he's got as good a chance of any of the first-season sires to make a big impression this year. You've got to remember that he was a top-class racehorse and was a group winner at two, three and four.”

Too Darn Hot, the unbeaten and champion 2-year-old in 2018, who won the G1 Dewhurst S. for John Gosden, can also be backed at double-figure odds with Paddy Power offering 14-1. If there is a lurker in the betting, it may well be Highclere Stud's Land Force at odds of 10-1, whose yearlings sold well last year.

Not only did Shadwell pick up a couple of fillies by the impeccably-bred G2 Richmond S. winner from Book 2 at Newmarket, but Richard Knight also paid 180,000gns for a colt out of Book 1 by the stallion who averaged over €30,000 with his yearlings last year.

Paddy Power are clearly erring on the side of caution with the 4-1 quoted about Inns Of Court, and rightly so, given Tally-Ho's track record in this sphere.

The son of Invincible Spirit (Ire), who stands at €5,000, went down well at the yearling sales last year, averaging just over €30,000 for the 116 that were sold.

Paul Binfield, spokesman for the betting firm, said, “It's a little early to say where the money's going as we've only just priced it up, but it will be fascinating to find out which of the sires attract interest.

“We price it up on which yard the horse came from, their stud fee-trying to get the right mix between quality and price, the number of mares covered and also the sire's pedigree themselves.

“We've installed Blue Point as the favourite this year as Godolphin are renowned for farming their own horses so our traders felt that he was the right choice to head the market, but as I mentioned earlier, let's see where that money goes.”

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New Breeze-up Alliance Of Halpin And Davis Enjoys Early Success At Dundalk

The spotlight was cast on the burgeoning breeze-up operation of jockeys Gary Halpin and Sean Davis, best known for riding winners rather than producing them, when their graduate Song For Whoever (Ire) (Galileo Gold {GB}) ran out an impressive winner of the opening six-furlong maiden at Dundalk on Friday evening. 

Song For Whoever, who Halpin and Davis bought for €28,000 at the Goffs Sportsman's Sale last year before selling to Howson & Holdsworth Bloodstock for £42,000 at the Goffs UK Breeze-Up Sale, was getting off the mark at the third attempt for trainer John O'Donoghue in the colours of Genesis Thoroughbreds. 

Although he was consigned by Tally-Ho Stud at the Goffs UK Breeze-up Sale, Song For Whoever was sourced and produced by the riders, who will be consigning under the name GS Bloodstock from their new base at Ulundi Lodge on the Curragh next year. 

“Your judgment is on the line–you are telling people what you think the horses can do and it's important that they back you up,” – Gary Halpin

A delighted Halpin said on Friday evening, “We bought him at the Sportsman's Sale under Rushway Stables for €28,000. We were looking for something that could breeze and he looked sharp enough to do that. We had him on our list and Roger O'Callaghan, who we have worked closely with for a number of years, had seen him as well. It was a help that he liked him.”

He added, “I prepped him at Kevin Prendergast's yard in Friarstown on the Curragh. He was there all winter and did most of his early work while I was riding out in Kevin's and he went from there to Doncaster where he sold to Matt Holdsworth for Noel Hayes. We were very fortunate that Tally-Ho were happy to consign him for us. 

“He was actually popular enough to a point at the sales. George Boughey and Mark McStay had a go on him. I think George was the underbidder and I'm pretty sure that Mark was on him for a long while as well. The right people were interested in him, thankfully.”

Halpin enjoyed his best ever season as a rider in 2016 when partnering 36 winners domestically while his biggest success came aboard the Ross O'Sullivan-trained Rocky Sky (Ire) (Rock Of Gibraltar {Ire}) in the Listed Salsibil S. at Naas last term. 

Davis has returned to Ireland after a successful spell in Britain, where he rode 56 winners in 2019, and alongside Halpin, will continue to ride whilst preparing the breezers. 

However, the name Halpin will not be seen on a racecard anytime soon, with Friday's victory proving a timely tonic for the man sidelined with a fractured jaw.

He explained, “We've 11 in at the moment but there are a few more due back to us in the next few days and we will add another one or two in January. We are looking at having around 15 2-year-olds to breeze next year.

“Sean and I will consign under GS Bloodstock next year. It's exciting. Especially now that everything is cantering and broken in, we can see them progress. Unfortunately, I'm not riding them myself at the minute because I'm out of action with a fractured jaw, but I'm getting to see plenty on the ground.

“I think we've amassed a bunch of horses who are going to get to a good level. The Inns Of Court (Ire) colt that we bought at Doncaster has had three updates since we got him. He's now a half-brother to Believing (Ire) (Mehmas {Ire}), who has done really well to be multiple stakes-placed for George Boughey and Highclere Thoroughbreds. 

“She's one we'll be keeping a close eye on next year. Mick Fitzpatrick sold her for 115,000gns at the Tattersalls Craven Breeze-up Sale in April so, all things being equal, we'd be hoping to get our own lad to the Craven safe and sound.”

On the rest of the breeze-up battalion, he added, “We've a lovely Cotai Glory (GB) colt who we gave €65,000 for at Tattersalls Ireland. He was consigned by Tally-Ho and is out of a half-sister to Fairyland (Ire). He's going to be exciting. 

“We've been sent a Kodiac (GB) filly who's out of a half-sister to Middle Park S. winner Supremacy (Ire) and there's a nice Dandy Man (Ire) colt from the family of Slade Power (Ire). We've a nice bunch and there's a couple of others there as well.”

Asked how riding winners compares with producing them, Halpin said, “It's totally different. It's a different feeling altogether. Your judgment is on the line–you are telling people what you think the horses can do and it's important that they back you up. As a jockey, your judgment has to be right when you ride a horse work or ride it in a race, your feedback has to be good. This is a little bit more added pressure. It's a different sort of pressure.”

 

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