Q&A | Horse Racing Free Tips

‘We Are Going To Get Relegated If We Keep Selling Our Best Strikers’

There have been a lot of football analogies in racing this week. Most have centered around a hypothetical situation whereby the Kevin De Bruynes or the Erling Haalands of this world were leaving the Premier League for sunnier-and more lucrative pay packets-in foreign leagues.

For all the Manchester City fans out there, you can relax, as the analogy was simply fictional. However, there is nothing fictional about the mass exodus of talent facing British and Irish racing.

Ger Lyons is better qualified than most to speak about the problem. Lyons, who has held a training licence for over 25 years, has built his impressive Glenburnie Stables in County Meath into one of the best training facilities in Ireland.

He secured a breakthrough Classic success in 2020 when Siskin stormed to Irish 2,000 Guineas glory at the Curragh while Even So provided the stable with its second when landing the Irish Oaks in the same season.

From losing some of his best prospects to the international market, poor prize-money and what he describes as a lack of opportunities for good horses in Ireland, Lyons makes for a fascinating interviewee in this week's Q&A.

Brian Sheerin: You have trained 41 winners this season–only Aidan and Joseph O'Brien have managed a greater tally at this juncture–and you have already surpassed the €1 million mark in prize-money at Glenburnie. Everything is on course for another big season.

Ger Lyons: Everything is going steady away. We haven't run many 2-year-olds so far this season and I have had to be patient with them. The quality seems to be good as we are holding our own in stakes races which has always been the objective for us.

BS: While things have been going well on the track, I know from speaking with you at length just over a month ago that you have major concerns for Irish racing. You also described yourself as “a pre-trainer” for international handlers due to the exodus of high-class horses to the foreign market. Would you care to expand on that?

GL: Sadly, our prize-money is very ordinary and what I would describe as the 'good horse' is being neglected, hence why they are all being sold to continue their careers abroad. From the top owners right down the ranks, no-one is able to turn down Australia, Hong Kong or America when they come calling. It's disappointing to have to sell our best prospects but the economics of it all makes sense. Not only that, but the owners can see the earning power for their horses in America and we have seen countless examples of horses being moved out there in pursuit of greater prize-money. Masen (GB) (Kingman {GB}) is the most recent horse to leave my yard for America. He has won over $300,000 in three runs in America but would have struggled to earn €100,000 in Ireland this season–and that's if he won three races over here, the chances of which would have been very slim as the opportunities just aren't there.

BS: Mark Johnston echoed the same opinion in last week's Q&A. He revealed that the owners of Royal Patronage (Fr) (Wootton Bassett {GB}), a Group 2-winning 2-year-old who reached a rating of 113 in his 3-year-old campaign, decided to move the colt to America in a bid to win more prize-money. Johnston was keen to point out that he didn't blame the owners but admitted the drain on resources is becoming hard to contend with as a trainer. Do you feel the same?

GL: I certainly don't blame the owners as we all trade. However, if we keep selling our best horses then we are going to be left racing what's left over and our product will lessen every year. If people don't want to watch our best, how will they come and watch lesser quality races and races with small field sizes? This trend needs to be addressed quickly as we are already a long way down a very slippery slope.

BS: Here's the bit that doesn't make sense for me; Mutasarref (GB) (Dark Angel {Ire}) is a horse who you bought for 95,000gns from Dermot Weld at the Horses-in-Training Sale last October. He was obviously well-bought given he's won three races for you–at Leopardstown, the Curragh and last week at Naas–and has improved 25lbs in the process. However, he's picked up less than €30,000 for those wins at premier tracks and only qualified for that Naas race by virtue of the fact he hasn't won a race worth €15,000 or more.

GL: He's a good example of a good horse not being rewarded with the prize-money he deserves to be winning. He is now rated 105 after that Naas win but look at what he has earned–it's pathetic. Good horses should be rewarded yet we seem to reward mediocrity. In what world should a stakes-placed horse earn the same as a low-grade handicapper operating in the 45-65 bracket? It does here and that's wrong. The strategy [from Horse Racing Ireland] seems to be all about minimum prize-money levels whereas I would have the lower-rated horses earning a maximum figure and it wouldn't exceed €5,000. No handicapper should be earning more than a stakes horse. It's not long ago that a certain rating, say in the 70s, wouldn't get you into a premier handicap. Now it will, which shows how far the standard is dropping. Not only that but, if you are going to reward mediocrity, that promotes cheating but that is another can of worms that I won't open!

BS: There was a story in The Times on Wednesday about how some leading figures in British racing are pushing for a restructuring of the sport that would result in a greater slice of prize-money being channeled to the elite level. It may not be a popular viewpoint but I gather it's one you would agree with?

GL: I was looking at the figures published at the end of last year and it showed that the average prize-money on offer for the premier handicaps was more than that for listed and Group 3 races which is not only astonishing but, in my opinion, wrong. I am also a big believer that our maidens need to be worth more money. You can only win your maiden once and you should be rewarded for doing so, especially because, in order to win a maiden in Ireland, you need to be rated in the mid-80s or above on average. So, when you win your maiden, that is obviously going to limit your chances when you step into premier handicaps. Therefore, the maidens should carry more prize-money.

BS: You mentioned last month that the notion of prize-money in Ireland being strong was a myth. It's hard to argue against that viewpoint when you look at Slan Abhaile (Ire) (Territories {Ire}), who finished fourth in the G3 Anglesey S. and picked up just €2,750 for her troubles. Had she finished third and picked up black-type, she would have won just €5,500, which is still less than what you'd get for winning a 0-65 handicap.

GL: That's exactly my point and to add insult to injury, if she had finished third and picked up that valuable black-type, that would have ruled her out of a lot of listed races going forward as the conditions of most of those races state that horses who placed in group races can't run. The Ingabelle S. on Irish Champions Weekend is certainly one of those races so, while we were only beaten a head for black type in the Anglesey, I felt it was actually a good outcome as we still have the option of those listed races. But again, here is another example of the programme hindering the good horses whereas you can run your low-grade operator every day of the week if you want to.

BS: HRI released its six-month statistics last week. The figure that jumped out at me is that prize-money still hasn't risen to pre-pandemic levels despite the fact that HRI boss Suzanne Eade put prize-money at the top of her priority list when the budget was released in December. Not only that, but the Irish Derby, which is meant to be the flagship race of the season, carried a purse of €1m when it was worth €1.5m before the pandemic in 2019. In actual fact, when High Chaparral (Ire) won the Irish Derby 20 years ago, the race was worth €300,000 more than what it was run for this year.

GL: That speaks for itself and I find they [HRI] try to dress up these reports to convince us that all is rosy in the garden but we are the ones on the playing field and we know the reality of the situation. Look, I was lucky to win two Classics in 2020 [the Irish 2,000 Guineas with Siskin and the Irish Oaks with Even So (Ire) (Camelot {GB})] and both races were worth just €145,000 each to the winner–I've won handicaps worth more. The Ebor for example, which we won with Mustajeer (GB) (Medicean {GB}), was worth €1m. By the way, both of my Classic winners were sold to go abroad!

BS: You have made it clear that you have no interest in training horses below a certain standard. Given the lion's share of the horse population is rated 70 or less, I am interested to know how you go about weeding out the ones who don't make the grade. I know you are a big fan of claimers.

GL: Plenty of people will say, 'it's all right for Ger to say that,' but, like everybody, I do train plenty of low-grade horses–I just choose to move them on and concentrate on the quality. The claimers have been very successful for us and we need a minimum of one a week. Jim Gough claims a lot of my horses and has great fun with them. He actually came over and shook my hand at Naas last week and complimented me on not only supporting those races but for being realistic with price tags that I put on them as well. That allows him to claim them and enjoy them. Just because I don't want to train horses at that level doesn't mean I don't have them. I just choose to move them on. The authorities need to get their heads around the fact that there are hugely positive aspects to claimers and they need to be made more customer-friendly. I think that the claimers are a big addition to the programme and, if I had my way, I would replace a lot of the low-grade handicaps with claimers.

BS: There will also be people who read this and think, 'But Ger, if it wasn't for trading horses, Glenburnie would not have become the behemoth that it is now.'

GL: At the start, horses were much cheaper to buy and the upside to trading them on was much greater. Nowadays, it's virtually impossible to buy the level of horse we were buying at one point for less than €50,000. There are always exceptions but in general the price of horses has escalated beyond all recognition which flies in the face of my prize-money argument.

BS: When you were starting out, and trading horses was necessary to survive, did you ever envisage a situation whereby, once you arrived at the top table, you would still be faced with the prospects of losing your best horses.

GL: In short, no. I always imagined it would be different when we got the good horses but times have changed and, as I said already, even the top owners are sellers now. Sure didn't Aidan [O'Brien] sell a Derby winner [Serpentine (Ire)] to Australia recently? It's very frustrating and I always use the football analogy in that we–and I mean Britain and Ireland here–are the team that keeps selling our best strikers. Sooner rather than later, we are going to get relegated.

BS: In the immediate future, you have some smart prospects to look forward to. Apricot Twist (Ire) (Expert Eye {GB}) looked a potential top-notcher on debut at Naas last week. Could we see her in the Ballyhane S. next Monday?

GL: She's lovely but the race could just come too soon as she only ran last week. I've done very little with her since but when there is a race with such good prize-money, it's imperative that we support it. Barry [Mahon, racing manager at Juddmonte] and I will discuss it and do the right thing by the filly first and foremost.

BS: You won the race last year with Sacred Bridge (GB) (Bated Breath {GB}) and, judging by the entries, have been keen to record back-to-back wins. What struck me about your entries is that some of them haven't even run yet so I am presuming you have kept a bit of powder dry for the second half of the season.

GS: We have. As I said, it's important to support such initiatives and hopefully I will have a few runners in the race. I've plenty of bullets to fire in the second part of the season as we have been very disciplined with the babies so far.

BS: It's one thing getting these well-bred fillies to train but another thing altogether managing them to fulfil their potential and achieve the valuable black type that they need before they go to the breeding sheds. You must get huge pleasure out of that aspect of the game?

GL: It's one of the great pleasures of this job and one that I very much enjoy. I always remind myself that these babies could be the dams of my next Classic winners, hopefully. One thing that I have learned that I didn't appreciate at the start is that an ounce of breeding is worth a ton of feeding.

BS: And speaking of high-class broodmare prospects, they don't come much better than Cairde Go Deo (Fr) (Camelot {GB}). I thought she ran a cracker in the Irish Oaks and would be excited to see her step up in trip in time. What are the plans for her?

GL: She's a sweetheart and is slowly developing into what we hoped she would be. I trained her mother and liked her and it was that reason that made me purchase Cairde Go Deo on behalf of Mark Dobbin. Also, the fact that she was by Camelot, the same sire as Even So, made it an easy decision. Hopefully she will stay in training at four, and yes, she should mature into a very good stayer.

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Q&A with Riley Mott

Riley Mott, a longtime assistant to his Hall of Fame father, Bill Mott, recently announced he was going out on his own. The 30-year-old will hang his own shingle after taking out his training license. Jen Roytz sat down with the younger Mott for this Q&A.

JR: What has it been like coming up under your father?
RM: To be honest, it's been like going to Harvard for horse training. Not only learning from him but from everyone involved in our operation, all the way up and down the ladder. I've gained knowledge from everyone in our barn at one point or another in my life. I have a great blueprint on how to run my business and feel very equipped for what lies ahead.

JR: Describe the type of horseman you are?
RM: I try to be patient and understanding towards the horses first and foremost. It's quite amazing what they allow us to do with them when you take a step back and think about it. They're such amazing animals. All horses learn and adapt at their own pace and I find it helpful to be cognizant of that while training.

JR: Describe the responsibility that comes with being a trainer.
RM: As a trainer you are the absolute insurer, so you have all of the responsibility. I've learned that you have to follow your gut and be confident in the decisions you make. Attention to detail and surrounding yourself with good staff can't be overstated.

JR: What is your favorite aspect of horse racing?
RM: I would say the lead up and anticipation of a race is my favorite aspect. It's basically a crescendo of blood, sweat and tears from the breeders, sellers, breaking farms and trainers (and many more parties in between) to get a horse in the starting gate for a race. And if you win, even more thrilling.

JR: What horses have had the biggest impact on your life?
RM: My dad has always said Theatrical (Ire) probably had the biggest impact on his life. The horse paid for my parents' first house in New York and they were able to start our family from there. Maybe if it weren't for Theatrical I wouldn't exist, so for that reason, Theatrical.

JR: Talk about some of the horses that have taught you the most?
RM: We've had a number of horses who I would consider “projects,” whether it be for soundness or temperamental reasons. There have been times where I've only seen a dead end with them, but we've given them the time required to get right and it's worked out well. I've learned that if they can go on and win a race down the line, it's worth giving the horse a fair chance, even if the end goal is well in the future.

JR: What is one of your biggest professional accomplishments?
RM: I've been involved in a number of champions, classic winners, Grade I winners, etc. I would consider all of those team accomplishments rather than my own accomplishments. There's no one person who is responsible for any of those successes, but I take a lot of pride in the horses our team has been able to develop.

JR: What are some ways trainers and their staff can improve the racehorse ownership experience?
RM: It depends on the ownership group. Some owners are happy to let you do your thing and see you over in the paddock for the race. Others enjoy being more involved in the day-to-day happenings. I believe in flexibility and having an open door for your clients. We're not just in the horse training business, but the service business as well. My goal is to get creative and introduce some new ways to involve our clients.

JR: In what ways do you think HISA will change racing in the coming years?
RM: I think it will ultimately create a more level playing field, which I would say most people are in favor of. In theory, horsemanship and skill will be rewarded. Some of the bookkeeping requirements appear to be rather tedious, but I'm confident the rules will evolve over time and the record-keeping system will be a bit more realistic. It would be nice to see uniformity without getting too radical.

JR: What (so far) has been your most memorable moment in racing?
RM: Country House's [Kentucky] Derby was quite wild. Not because that's how we wanted to win the race, but the roller coaster of emotion it took us on was pretty unique. From one extreme to another and everything in between. Experiencing it with my wife Megan was also very special. Both the positives and the negatives of the situation are something I'll never forget.

JR: What do you think horse racing is doing right?
RM: One thing that appears to be regularly overlooked is the amount of jobs our industry provides. Between the backstretch workers, administrative workers, frontside workers, maintenance teams and so on, it takes armies to operate a race meet. That's something I've been so proud of in regard to my parents' business over the years. Providing work for families is very honorable and something I hope to do in the same capacity going forward.

Mott with MGISW Yoshida (Jpn) | Emma Berry

JR: Do you ride, and if so, what is your riding background?
RM: I ride the pony every day, that's the extent of it. His name is Round, a Claiborne homebred who we raced. By Arch, out of Enth, half to multiple stakes winners. He catches the eye.

Think Fast…
JR: Most used app on your phone
RM: Dark Sky

JR: What is a good book you've read lately
RM: More of a past performance guy

JR: Favorite racing movie
RM: Seabiscuit

JR: What do you enjoy doing outside of work
RM: Golf and family time

JR: What is the last thing you Googled
RM: Best brand of electric scooter

JR: What do you wish you learned sooner
RM: I didn't learn how to ride a bike until I was about nine

JR: What skill are you still honing
RM: Everything. You're never a finished product.

JR: What trait most defines who you are
RM: Positive

JR: Favorite quote or motto
RM: Hindsight is everything in the game of horse racing

JR: What food (or drink) can you not live without
RM: Erma Scott's shepherd's pie

JR: What is a nickname that people call/have called you?
RM: Riles

JR: Go-to breakfast
RM: Coffee

JR: Go-to cocktail
RM: Casamigos margarita

JR: Go-to karaoke song
RM: Whatever song my 10-month-old daughter has been listening to

JR: What sports teams do you follow
RM: Kentucky Wildcats basketball/football. Cam Smith is my favorite golfer.

JR: What was the last show you binge watched
RM: Too embarrassed to say

JR: If you could have one super power, what would it be?
RM: Teleport

JR: What is the worst fashion (or hair) decision you've ever made?
RM: Middle school: surfer hair. Polo shirt with gym shorts.

Follow Riley on Twitter: @Riley_Mott

The post Q&A with Riley Mott appeared first on TDN | Thoroughbred Daily News | Horse Racing News, Results and Video | Thoroughbred Breeding and Auctions.

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‘I am Delighted That he has a Top Miler in Baaeed – I had Been Waiting for That’

Kick-starting a new weekly Q&A series in TDN Europe, former champion trainer John Oxx, whose spellbinding career will forever be remembered through his masterful handling of Sea The Stars (Ire) (Cape Cross {Ire}), Sinndar (Ire) (Grand Lodge) and Ridgewood Pearl (GB) (Indian Ridge {Ire}), sat down with Brian Sheerin to talk all things racing and breeding. The dual Derby-winning trainer speaks about Epsom, how delighted he is that Sea The Stars has a top-notch miler in Baaeed and his life in retirement.

Brian Sheerin: There are few weeks in the Flat racing calendar quite like this one. It must evoke some special memories?

John Oxx: Of course it brings back great memories for us given we had two great horses-Sinndar and Sea The Stars-who were lucky enough to win the race. I didn't have many runners in the Derby over the years but it was a good race for us. There's always great excitement because the Derby comes up quite early in the year and most horses going into the race are not completely tested. They certainly haven't been tested over the distance, never mind the track. It's always a bit of a mystery and nobody knows for sure what will happen in the Derby which I think is part of the great appeal of the race. The pecking order has yet to be established and you can get surprises. On the first Saturday in June, the whole slate is wiped clean and the result is there for everyone to see as the Derby is usually won by the best horse. Suddenly, the whole story becomes a lot clearer, and that's what makes the Derby and the Oaks so exciting.

BS: What attributes do you need to win a Derby? I know Donnacha O'Brien was speaking about a good mentality being a huge asset which is why he is confident about a big run from Piz Badile (Ire) (Ulysses {Ire}).

JO: Some people were advocating for the Derby to be run later in the year. There was debate in the industry paper about whether the date was correct or not. Of course, that is all nonsense because the whole point of the Derby is that it comes up early and that's what makes it a tougher test. The test, as Donnacha explained, is mental. For a horse to be ready to run in the Derby, to get a mile and a half early in June, to have run as a 2-year-old and have very little time off in the winter–none at all really–and then train through the early spring and put up with all that pressure. It's not meant to be easy. I didn't realise all it took to win a Derby until I had the responsibility of training a few horses to run in it and try and win it. The horses who can come through and win it, they have to be tougher, physically and mentally.

BS: Sinndar and Sea The Stars charted quite different paths to Epsom glory, didn't they?

JO: Yes. Sinndar was always a nice horse, a lovely looking horse with a marvellous temperament and he won his maiden before just scraping home in the G1 National S. as a juvenile. He looked to me like a horse who might run a place in a Derby–he was lazy at home and didn't look like a horse who had the brilliance to win the race. However, while he was still lazy at home as a 3-year-old, he went to the Ballysax at Leopardstown with a seven-pound penalty and got beaten by a race-fit rival [Grand Finale (Ire) (Sadler's Wells)], but I came home from the races that day thinking Sinndar could win the Derby. He was much better than what he had been showing at home, much better than I thought he was. He won the Derrinstown Derby Trial by a neck, but again he was carrying a seven-pound penalty for his Group 1 win at two, and beat a good horse of Aidan's [O'Brien] called Bach (Ire). Sinndar was deceptive. Every time he ran he got better and his rating jumped. That's the way he was right through the year. We had gotten to know him by the autumn and we really fancied him for the Arc.

Sea The Stars was a different kettle of fish altogether. We could see the potential brilliance even when he was a big 2-year-old who was always going to develop with the benefit of time. He did well as a 2-year-old to win the G2 Beresford S. and we knew he had plenty of speed and class so we had to let him take his chance in the Guineas. It was a great achievement for him to win at Newmarket because he had a high temperature on Mar. 17 and, to overcome that and then come out and win the Guineas, I think the sparkle was only coming back the week of the race but he still won it comfortably. I know he held a little back in his homework, but you could see that he was a brilliant horse at home who had that mental strength and physical constitution to get over that temperature, win the Guineas and then come out a few weeks later and win at Epsom. He had more ability than you ever expect to find in a horse.

BS: Both horses went on to win the Arc in the autumn. It might be in your instinct to try and deflect praise here but, there is obviously huge skill involved in keeping a 3-year-old colt sweet from the spring right through to the end of the autumn. You did it twice. What was your secret?

JO: The secret is to have a very good horse! You can't burn the candle at both ends with horses if you want them to go on to the end of their 3-year-old year. Sinndar had two runs as a 2-year-old and Sea The Stars had three runs as a 2-year-old but they didn't have a gruelling juvenile campaign. They just did enough and gained enough experience. They were ready for their big engagements at three and were just good horses that were trained appropriately. What I mean by that is, Sinndar had his little break after winning the G1 Irish Derby, as that's what His Highness wanted. That's the way the French do it, they get as far as the French Derby and then rest the horse before giving them a trial before the Arc. That was the modus operandi of his highness at the time so that's what we did.

Obviously Sea The Stars was different. He had the brilliance to do it but he also had the physical constitution and the mental strength. He had everything. After he won the Guineas and the Derby, we knew he was one of the greats but to prove it, he had to run up a sequence of major races right throughout the season. Luckily we were able to get him through it and we just had to keep him healthy and keep him in a nice routine. The key is keeping them calm and happy in their work and not overfacing them. They have to enjoy their working life and then they will keep performing for you.

BS: I was struck by another comment you made once. You said that it was the everyday training of Sea The Stars that was the real pleasure. The race days were just pure relief

JO: Oh yes, it was a great privilege to train high-class horses. That's what keeps trainers going. That's what gets trainers up out of bed in the day. We felt with Sea The Stars in particular that, although it was a great responsibility and there were anxious times, it was also a great privilege and I certainly appreciated it. Sea The Stars was just a magnificent-looking creature. Just watching him, his behaviour and his attitude towards his work, being there looking at him every day and at evening stables, feeling his legs and then just standing back and admiring him, it was just a great pleasure. Yes, the race days were just a relief to see him go by the post in front. When it was all over and he'd won the Arc, I just sat down and I said, 'wow, imagine that. Imagine having a horse like that through your hands.' It was a mixture of tremendous relief, satisfaction and gratitude.

BS: Sea The Stars had brilliance over a range of different trips and we are seeing that through his progeny. Do you get much pleasure out of watching his sons and daughters on the track?

JO: I do, of course. He was a great horse with a great pedigree and he almost couldn't fail as a stallion. But we have seen horses disappoint at stud who had a lot of qualities. When they have that combination of great ability, good looks and pedigree, like Frankel has, too, it's nearly impossible for them not to be successful. I'm delighted to see him now with a top miler in Baaeed (GB) because I had been waiting for that. He's had good horses at a mile, plenty of them, but to get a real star miler like Baaeed, it's something I had been waiting for as Sea The Stars was a Guineas winner himself. Distance was no problem for him. He could have sprinted, he could have gone a mile, he could have gone two miles if he wanted to. He just had that superior engine and it's great to see him with Baaeed. From what I read, Baaeed seems to have his father's temperament as well. I watch the results all the time to see what's coming along for Sea The Stars.

BS: Have you any thoughts on the fact that Crystal Ocean (GB), one of his most talented sons, was not given a chance to prove himself as a Flat stallion?

JO: It's an unfortunate state of affairs that very good horses are shunned by breeders because they're mile-and-a-half winners or, in their eyes, were slow maturing. It's the way of the world at the moment and we can't do a lot to change it. Everyone is aware of the importance in keeping stamina in the breed and keeping those genes alive. There have been some changes made to the racing programme, giving better opportunities to horses in the staying category and boosting prize-money for those races, to try over a period of time to make yearlings who are bred to stay that little bit more popular in the sales ring.

The reason why people want sharp, early 2-year-olds is perfectly understandable. There are good commercial reasons for trainers and bloodstock agents to buy something sharp that might get a quick result for their owners. You can understand why owners would want it as well. You can't change that and I'm not saying we should. We just need to keep an eye on the distance as well because the thing about distance is that, horses race with their lungs and their cardiovascular system, and the superior athletes are the ones with the best respiratory system and the best cardiovascular system. That's the engine. The horses with the big engine have speed with more stamina. They don't stop.They keep going. That comes from their genes. If you don't breed for that, the gene pool is being diminished. If you just go for sprinters and nothing else, over time, the quality of the product will diminish. We are competing on the international stage and you'd like the product here to remain competitive here.

BS: Is there a certain jurisdiction that we should aspire to be like?

JO: We have to heed what is staring us in the face, which is the success of the Japanese horses. It has been there for several years but it has become obvious to a wider audience recently. In Japan, most of the bigger races are run over longer distances and up to two miles. The stallion farms are populated by horses who won these straying races, raced on as 4- and 5-year-olds and had plenty of races. They are producing some of the world's best horses every year. I read the TDN's report on last Sunday's Japanese Derby which stated that the first two horses home ran the last three furlongs in :33.6 seconds. To do that at the end of one and a half miles shows real quality. Speed and stamina equals a big engine and those are the genes that you would like to keep in the Thoroughbred.

BS: When you are speaking about horses who stay the trip I can't help but think about the Triple Crown. How close did you come to aiming Sea The Stars at the Triple Crown and were there ever any regrets that you didn't?

JO: It would be a dream to train a Triple Crown winner. It was marvellous to see Nijinsky II (Northern Dancer) do it and he was one of my heroes. To think that I would have had a chance to win the Triple Crown with Sea The Stars and that I'd dismiss it pretty quickly when I had the chance to do it is amazing really because I would have grown up thinking it would be the ultimate achievement for a horse. However, the owner was not keen on the idea for a start and, while I was given a free hand to train the horse as if he were mine, I knew their feelings. It would have been a formality for him. He would have followed them around at the rear and skirted past them at the end because great horses like that, as I have said, if they have a big engine like he did, distance does not matter. They just keep going. They don't stop and an extra couple of furlongs doesn't make any difference to them.

The commercial market wouldn't agree but winning the Triple Crown really does mean something when it comes to assessing a horse's capabilities but we're not going to see many of them in Europe again. It's still possible, with all the good stallions we have capable of siring such horses, but will we ever see one? As it turned out, running in the Irish Champion S. was his only chance to run in Ireland, having missed the Irish Derby due to the weather, and he beat a good field and actually won by a bit of distance that day, which he normally didn't. He normally just did enough. He earned his highest rating that day so it worked out better for the horse in the end.

BS: The Triple Crown remains a hot topic in America. They are suggesting tampering with the dates of the races. I know you have some views against that.

JO: Just because something is difficult to win and not many horses can do it, that's not a good reason to change it. Making it easier to achieve isn't necessarily the right thing to do as it's supposed to be tough and it's supposed to be a test. I think most people realise that. The Triple Crown in America is tough to win but it's been done many times and is still achievable. It also goes back to my earlier points on stamina. The Americans like speed but they also want to see their horses carry their speed around two turns and stay the gruelling 10 furlongs of the Kentucky Derby. It is still every American owner's dream to win the Kentucky Derby.

BS: Getting back to the Derby, what do you make of this year's race?

JO: As usual, it's all up for grabs on Saturday and we don't know what's going to happen. Desert Crown (GB) (Nathaniel {Ire}) looks a very worthy favourite. He was an impressive 2-year-old winner but has just had the one run this year. I am sure Sir Michael would have liked to get two runs into him this year, but he seems to be happy with him and he knows what he's doing. I also liked Stone Age (Ire) (Galileo {Ire}) at Leopardstown where he won easily. He's a battle-hardened warrior who has had enough runs as a 2-year-old and seems to have done well from two to three with two good wins under his belt this year. I like the look of him because he's so experienced. There are other good horses in there so it should be exciting to watch.

BS: How do you approach Derby week now that you are retired?

JO: I am happy to sit at home and watch it on television. I am not a frustrated trainer. I am happy to be watching and not having to worry about it. It used to be an anxious time and I am not sorry to be away from the anxiety of the whole thing.

BS: It could be another big weekend for Sea The Stars with Emily Upjohn (GB). John Gosden has been quoted as comparing her to Taghrooda (GB) (Sea The Stars {Ire}). She appears to have outstanding claims in the Oaks.

JO: She does and if John is comparing her favourably to Taghrooda that's a big recommendation. They are different types of fillies. Taghrooda was a lovely medium-sized filly, as far as I remember, and while I haven't seen Emily Upjohn in the flesh, I believe she is quite big. Obviously she is a fluent mover and is well balanced. I hope she is as good as Taghrooda because she was a smashing filly.

BS: Emily Upjohn's story is quite an interesting one and proves that Classic contenders can slip through the net.

JO: Yes. She was in Book 2 at Newmarket and I believe she was a very big yearling. She was good looking and moved well and must have had plenty of good qualities if Tom Goff bought her. People don't like them too big and don't want them to take too much time and she just wasn't commercial, even though she has a very good pedigree on the dam's side, one of the Aga Khan's best families. She was certainly very well bought at the price regardless of her recent good form. Everyone will look at it now and think they were asleep that day!

BS: You can't really mention the Derby without speaking about Lester Piggott. How did you remember him when you heard the sad news of his passing on Sunday?

JO: Lester was a one-off and will always be most closely associated with Epsom where his great skill was best advertised. People tried to copy his style and he put a whole generation of young jockeys on the wrong path as they all wanted to ride short like him but none of them were able to do it. He was a great jockey with brilliant instincts. He'd nerves of steel and was so focussed and determined. He just had that mental grit and went from one race to the next without letting success or failure have any affect on him. People were very interested in him not only because he was a great jockey but because he didn't talk much and kept a poker face which made him mysterious and added to his charisma.

BS: You have retired but your famous Curragbeg Stables remain a soundtrack to horses

JO: Yes. We are delighted to have John and Jody O'Donoghue here. They have started well and have a small string, nearly all of which are 2-year-olds. In fact, I think he has only one 3-year-old, and he has managed to win with that already. He has one nice early 2-year-old and he has won with that as well. They are a very capable and able couple and I am very impressed by the way that John is going about the job and the decisions that he's making and the way that he's running the place. I think they have a great future and we are looking forward to being a part of it all with them.

BS: And what is driving John Oxx?

JO: I have always been very interested in the breeding side of things and, now that I am retired, I have more time to keep up with what is going on around the world. I read a lot more and am a big fan of TDN. It's a great publication. I enjoy having that little bit more time. I am also very fortunate that Kirsten Rausing asked me to do some work for her at Staffordstown Stud and it's a great pleasure to go up there and be involved in her operation. I am very lucky that she asked me to become involved. She had a tremendous year in 2021, particularly with Alpinista (GB) (Frankel {GB}) winning three Group 1 races, and Sandrine (GB) (Bobby's Kitten), who has already run well in the 1000 Guineas, so we are really looking forward to her this season as well. Just rewards in all her efforts in building up her families.

The post ‘I am Delighted That he has a Top Miler in Baaeed – I had Been Waiting for That’ appeared first on TDN | Thoroughbred Daily News | Horse Racing News, Results and Video | Thoroughbred Breeding and Auctions.

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Q&A with HISA’s Lisa Lazarus: Part Two

Last week, an important piece of the Horseracing Integrity and Safety Act (HISA) puzzle was slotted into place when the Horseracing Integrity and Safety Authority's board of directors announced that Drug Free Sport International (DFSI) had been selected as the enforcement agency for the Anti-Doping and Medication Control (ADMC) arm of the program.

In part one of this two-part Q&A, HISA CEO Lisa Lazarus discussed the reasons behind DFSI's selection, details about the newly announced Horseracing Integrity and Welfare Unit (HIWU) and broad updates on the Anti-Doping and Medication Control (ADMC) program in general.

In part two, Lazarus discusses the working relationship between DFSI and the Authority–the non-profit umbrella established by HISA to oversee the broad program–as well as practical concerns about implementation of the safety program on July 1.

The following has been edited for brevity and for clarity.

TDN: What will the working relationship between the Authority and DFSI–what is essentially a service agency–look like? Will they be working primarily at the behest of the Authority or will they be an entirely separate, autonomous agency?

Lazarus: Entirely separate. Once we sign off and give them the contract, we don't have any influence.

Our only authority, so to speak, is over the rule-making process and over, of course, selecting the agency. So, if we feel the agency is not doing their job, we have the right to make changes. But ultimately, running the day-to-day business of the unit is going to be their responsibility and the responsibility of the advisory council.

TDN: At the recent Association of Racing Commissioners International (ARCI) conference, journalist Tim Livingston made remarks about lax drug-testing protocols in sports like the NFL and the NBA. He said, “I think you guys have to be careful because a lot of these guys who architect these doping programs are doing so with the leagues,” and then he made the comment that they're not particularly thorough and aren't designed to catch cheats.

DFSI has worked with both the NFL and the NBA. Do these comments concern you?

Lazarus: They don't at all. I think they're completely untrue and actually quite shocking.

I worked at the NFL for 10 years, so I know very well how the NFL runs its drug program. To say that it's not intended to catch [cheats] while people are caught all the time, I don't really understand that perspective. I mean, I would disagree wholeheartedly.

I know people involved in every sports league in the U.S. I think the one difference is that the drug programs are collectively bargained between the leagues and the unions. So, there's obviously a representative of the athletes that has the chance to make sure that there's due process. There are protections–that's expected. That's what makes a program good. I mean, the program has to have integrity and fairness. But DFSI for me has the highest level of integrity. They also do work for USADA [U.S. Anti-Doping Agency] from time to time. So, they really have a stellar reputation.

I think the comments that were made are really unfounded and I don't know where they come from. My understanding was that his talk and experience wasn't in anti-doping, it was [to do with] a referee scandal.

Sarah Andrew

TDN: But in terms of transparency of results, transparency of who's getting tested, the sharing of results, this is a different ball game to what DFSI has had to largely handle with some of those other human leagues, right? This is a different beast for DFSI, no?

Lazarus: Yes, it is an entirely different beast. And that's why we've created this Horseracing Integrity and Welfare Unit.

The way that I look at it is, DFSI is sort of the anchor tenant, because testing is the most work-intensive component of the unit. But ultimately, what they're doing is working with the advisory council to oversee experts that we're going to hire in all of these different pillars. So yes, it is an entirely different beast than what they're used to, but that's why the structure reflects that difference.

TDN: Stepping back, July 1 is looming large, and so far only three states–California, Kentucky and Minnesota–have agreed to shoulder the costs of the track safety component of HISA. What if all or nearly all of the other states decide not…

Lazarus: And Colorado. But I don't know if that's public.

TDN: But what if all, or nearly all, of the other states decide not to join them? In that worst-case scenario…

Lazarus: It's not a worst-case scenario. It's not a question of whether or not the costs get paid, it's a question of who's responsible.

The constitution doesn't allow us to force the state to do anything, so, if the states choose not to pay, what happens is that cost gets transferred to the racetracks on a per-start, strength-of-purse basis. The race tracks then take on that responsibility and they have to come up with a formula to spread that cost amongst the covered persons and to determine who pays how much.

If it's not paid, obviously we're going to work with the tracks to make it as easy as we can for them, but ultimately, the stick that we have in the Act is that they can lose their signal for pari-mutuel wagering.

Horsephotos

TDN: There's an important personnel component to this as well, right? Let's take regulatory vets. There's already a real shortage of qualified veterinarians available to do the regulatory work. If a substantial number of states opt to leave that part of the equation to HISA come July 1, do you have a contingency plan to make sure there is a nationwide team of vets who can do the pre-race examinations, all that necessary work?

Lazarus: You're mixing up two concepts here. There are two components with every state. One is the money assessment. The other is the voluntary agreement. While only a few states have agreed to opt into the money [assessment], we have about 80% of the states agreeing to enter into a voluntary agreement.

For a very high level of success with voluntary agreements, I'm hoping it's going to be about 90%. But we're at about 80% now. And what that means is that we're agreeing with the states…to use their state stewards to enforce the HISA rules. Otherwise, what's going to happen is that HISA is going to have to come in and hire a steward to sit alongside the state steward.

We do have plans in place for those states where we have to do that. But a few racetracks have [also] come to us and said, 'Even though our state doesn't want to enter the agreement, can we work out a deal with you, because we have these staff, we want to be able to use them?' And we've been able to work with them.

We're in the process of getting together a stewarding panel that we can ship out to different racetracks if we need to, as well as regulatory vets, which you are right, there's definitely a shortage of. We're looking at ways that we can essentially plug those shortages if we have to. But we're really hopeful and optimistic that most states are going to reach that voluntary agreement with us.

TDN: As many as 80% to 90% of states have already signed the voluntary agreement?

Lazarus: No, I'm sorry, I should have said that about 80% have said that, because we still have a few more weeks. So, the deadline for opting in [about the] money was about May 1. The deadline for the voluntary agreement is toward the end of May. We've reached agreements with a number of them, but very close to reaching agreement with the majority.

To be fair, what I'm basing that number on are the ones that we're speaking to, working through logistics, coming to an arrangement. It's my belief and understanding that with those states, it obviously shows they want to make it work. We just have a couple more weeks to kind of wrap it all up.

TDN: You do have a contingency plan to make sure that the necessary personnel will be in place for those 10%, 15%, 20% of jurisdictions that don't sign that voluntary agreement?

Lazarus: Correct.

Coady

TDN: There is a considerable amount of concern–both from people stridently against HISA and those who are wholly supportive of it–that come July 1, we won't be ready for launch. What does the industry need to do to make sure this plane lands smoothly?

Lazarus: A couple things. One is everyone needs to go on to hisaus.org and register. We will soon be launching a campaign to remind everyone that they need to do that by July 1.

The second is racetracks need to get more involved and engage with us more–and most are–but especially in those jurisdictions where the racing commissions are not working with us, particularly the states that are suing us or are less likely to work with us. In those states, that's where the racetracks need to get involved because the burden is going to fall on them, not to pay for everything, but to be the sort of [fee] collector or the place where the information is going to be disseminated.

And [lastly], do what you can to kind of help get the message out to those that maybe are less likely to be on their laptops reading about developments. The industry belongs to all of us and this is a heavy lift. Congress gave us very aggressive timelines and we're going to be ready on July 1, but you're right, we're definitely going to need help and support to make this work.

TDN: There's a lot of really busy people in this sport who just don't have the time to go onto a website and try to find information that may not always be easily accessible. Do you think your outreach could be better?

Lazarus: Yeah, for sure. And we're working on that now and there'll be a lot more outreach between now and July 1.

I cannot tell you how many groups I've spoken to and how many appearances I've made on board calls, on Zoom calls, etcetera. I do that day and night. So, I hope I've reached a lot of people that way. And I think I have.

We've created materials for jockeys that are kind of a cheat sheet guide for them, what they need to do. We've disseminated those. We have one for the trainers that's coming up very soon and we also have a social media campaign that's about to launch. So, I'm hoping that's going to do as good a job as we can expect. We still have a couple months to get the word out, and I think we're going to get there. It's moving quickly, but we're going to get there.

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