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Q & A With Breeders’ Cup President and CEO Drew Fleming

This past year was a good one for the Breeders' Cup. Returning to Keeneland for the first time since the pandemic year of 2020, the event generated a global wagering total of $189.1 million, which set a record, 3.4% higher than the previous mark. The Breeders' Cup also produced big numbers when it came to the total economic impact for Keeneland, Lexington and the surrounding community. It was announced Friday that a survey conducted by University of Louisville Economics Professor Thomas E. Lambert, Ph.D., showed that the Breeders' Cup was responsible for a total estimated economic impact of $81,846,897. It was the second-highest economic impact recorded in Breeders' Cup history, following the record set in 2017 at Del Mar. On the track, it was a spectacular two days of racing, highlighted by a memorable win by Flightline (Tapit) in the Breeders' Cup Classic.

How is it that the Breeders' Cup's momentum never seems to wane and what's ahead for racing's championship event? We posed those questions and more to Breeders' Cup President and CEO Drew Fleming.

TDN: The handle figures are particularly impressive as the Friday card yielded a record $66.1 million in handle and the Saturday card produced $122.9 million in handle, also a record. What has caused the growth in handle and what needs to be done to see that it continues to grow?

DF: We are very grateful to the horseplayers that have been supporting us and our Thoroughbred industry for a long time. At the Breeders' Cup, we take pride in the fact that we have the best horses in the world competing, which equates to really great betting races. Additionally, the Breeders' Cup, for many years, has been conducting its own global pool and we had 27 countries last year bet into the common pool. We had an additional six countries betting separately. One of the things that the company continues to invest in, not only in time but capital, is in the awareness of the Breeders' Cup as a whole. We felt we ran an effective awareness campaign last year, which caused an increased consumption of content as well as generating additional wagering dollars.

TDN: As they are proud of saying, Lexington is the horse capital of the world. There are racing fans all over the country, but it's just different in Lexington. How does that factor into the success of the 2022 Breeders' Cup?

DF: The moment you get off the plane in Lexington, Kentucky, horse racing is in the air. You go to a restaurant, a bar, a coffee shop, people are talking breeding, training, owning race horses. It's a way of life. The city was so welcoming. Unfortunately, in 2020 we weren't able to have fans due to the pandemic. We told the city we would be back as soon as we could. We were able to come two years later and deliver on that promise and they could not have been more thankful. The hospitality was everywhere. People were thrilled to have fans back and were also very thrilled to have the World Championships back in Lexington and to be able to showcase our industry.

TDN: The 2020 numbers aren't applicable because of the pandemic. Before that, the last Breeders' Cup at Keeneland was in 2015. The economic impact numbers from 2015 to 2022 increased by 27.8%. What was different about 2022 versus 2015 that the number increased the way that it did?

DF: A couple of things played a role. The brand and the demand for the Breeders' Cup continues to grow. Last year, we had people from all 50 states purchase tickets as well as 18 countries. Because the brand continues to grow we continue to see investment not only in the Breeders' Cup but in the surrounding areas when we are there.

TDN: It's not just Lexington. The entire state of Kentucky is horse-crazy and Louisville is also a great racing town. We haven't seen the Breeders' Cup at Churchill Downs since 2018 and it is not scheduled for there either this year or next. Is there any reason for that and what is the status of the event returning to Churchill Downs?

DF: Churchill is a great partner and we enjoy working with them and had a very successful Breeders' Cup there in 2018. Normally, we don't talk about future host sites until we have made a host site announcement. With the impact and the success of the past few times we have been in Kentucky, I anticipate that shortly in the future we will be back in Kentucky.

TDN: You had a superstar in the Breeders' Cup this year in Flightline. What impact did he have and can you address both the business aspects of the event and the excitement level that he brought to the event. Fifty years from now, people will still be talking about his win in the Classic.

DF: NBC compared Flightline's performance to Secretariat. Any time you have a horse like that there will be increased interest, not only for the Breeders' Cup but for the sport as a whole. It was amazing to see him deliver in the horse capital of the world. Being a hometown boy, seeing him come around the turn and the energy he generated was just amazing. It's something I will remember for the rest of my life. One thing about the Breeders' Cup that we are so proud of is that we know we're going to have the best horses in the world competing. In 2015, we had American Pharoah, who was the first 'grand slam' winner. That was also amazing. You feel humbled to be a part of that. As far as a monetary impact, that's hard to quantify. But we knew with him there would be increased interest and that was evident when he came into the paddock. It was like the Beatles were coming on stage.

TDN: Flightline aside, what were some of your favorite moments from this Breeders' Cup?

DF: There was not a dry eye in the house when Cody's Wish won. That was such a tremendous and compelling story. It's great when racing can tell feel-good stories like that. It was also great just having the fans come back after we couldn't have fans in 2020.

The horses break from the gate in the Dirt Mile | Coady

TDN: The Breeders' Cup Festival has become a big part of the whole experience. It's not just two days anymore. You have several events leading up to race day. Can you tell us a little bit of the history of this and how much has the Festival helped when it comes to things like economic impact?

DF: In addition to having the two best days of racing, the Breeders' Cup is a celebration of equestrian life. Like most major sporting events across the globe, it's important to have a festival component so that fans can come and see what a beautiful area the event is taking place in, be welcomed, have great hospitality and celebrate the equestrian lifestyle. We want them to walk away and say, 'Wow, not only was that two great days of racing, but it was a wonderful vacation, a wonderful experience and I want to come back.' In any of the cities that we are in, we work with the locals to develop that festival and to highlight key aspects of the region to our visiting guests.

TDN: NYRA is trying to get a loan from the state so that it can refurbish Belmont Park. You are on the record saying that if this gets done the Breeders' Cup would love to come back there. Your thoughts on a return to New York?

DF: We're incredibly supportive of NYRA and we will support any redevelopment at Belmont. We have a great relationship with the executive team at NYRA. I am having dinner Wednesday night in New York with (NYRA CEO) David O'Rourke. We wrote him a letter several months ago with the title, 'If you build it we will come.' The Breeders' Cup sticks to its word.

TDN: The Breeders' Cup has not been to Belmont since 2005, understandable because the current track is not a good fit when it comes to hosting an event like this. How much has the Breeders' Cup missed New York?

DF: We very much miss New York. There's so much energy up there and they are large investors in the game. We look forward to coming back. If they build it we will be there.

TDN: What can you tell us so far about what's in store for this year's Breeders' Cup at Santa Anita when it comes to new initiatives and things you can do to maintain the momentum?

DF: One of the challenging but also fun things when it comes to working for a company like the Breeders' Cup is that we are always innovating. We are continuing to move the ball forward on technological advancements in viewing and look forward to working with NBC, FanDuel and some other partners to continue to make sure that those who are watching have many different angles and experiences when it comes to watching the sport. Along with having great views of the San Gabriel mountains, we want to make sure that they have a world-class time when it comes to hospitality. We will continue to work to advance the culinary offerings and will have some exciting things to announce in the near future. We will also have some new ticket packages that we are putting the final touches on to make sure, again, that everyone has the best experience possible.

TDN: You brought up FanDuel. It's obvious that racing needs to find a way to attract the sports bettor and we need to have the FanDuels of the world offering betting on the Breeders' Cup and all racing on their sports betting platforms. Where do things stand when it comes to getting the sports bettors to follow and bet on the Breeders' Cup?

DF: Hats off to FanDuel for advancing the technology so there can be an aggregated wallet experience for the sports bettor. It's a tremendous marketing opportunity for our sport to be on the same bookshelf as the NFL, the NBA and MLB. Horse racing will be able to be cross-marketed from a wagering standpoint to those who are already wagering on other sports. This is one of the largest marketing opportunities we have had in a long time.

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HISA Q&A: The ADMC Program

Edited Press Release

With the anticipated March 27 implementation of the Horseracing Integrity and Safety Authority's (HISA) Anti-Doping and Medication Control (ADMC) Program approaching, it's increasingly important for all racing participants to understand how the Program will work. The following are HISA's answers to five frequently asked questions about the ADMC Program.

How will the new HISA ADMC Program impact the lives and workflow of horsemen?

The ADMC Program is designed to create centralized testing and results management processes and apply uniform penalties for violations efficiently and consistently across the country. Its rules will institute uniformity across jurisdictions, consistency in how laboratories test for substances, and swift and efficient adjudication practices.

Under the Horseracing Integrity and Welfare Unit (HIWU), all sample collection personnel will receive in-person training on HIWU's uniform chain of custody process and digital data collection technology. The HIWU app that sample collectors will use will significantly reduce the previously required paperwork involved in the testing process and enable horsemen to receive electronic receipts of their horses' sample collection.

For the first time, labs across the country will be testing for the same substances at the same levels. The ADMC rules establish separate categories for Prohibited Substances that are allowed outside of race day and other specific periods (i.e., Controlled Medications) and substances that are never allowed to be in a horse (i.e., Banned Substances). This system is meant to appropriately penalize those who use Banned Substances, while being sensible and proportionate when it comes to Controlled Medication violations.

In addition to in-competition testing at racetracks, HIWU will introduce a strategic Out-of-Competition testing program that will incorporate intelligence and data analysis in the selection of Covered Horses. Responsible Persons (i.e., trainers) of Covered Horses selected for Out-of-Competition testing will have the option of either having their horse tested wherever it is currently located, or at another mutually agreed upon site as long as the Covered Horse is made available for testing within six (6) hours of notification.

To support its Investigations Unit, which will work to identify bad actors through intelligence gathering from industry participants and data analysis, HIWU will launch anonymous whistleblower platforms to enable individuals to anonymously submit concerns regarding suspected violations of the ADMC Program.

Who is in charge of HIWU, the organization tasked with implementing the ADMC Program?

HIWU was established by Drug Free Sport International (DFSI) to be the independent enforcement agency of HISA's ADMC Program. HIWU is independent from, but in frequent communication with, HISA on the implementation of the ADMC Program. HISA's ADMC rules are ultimately vetted and approved by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC).

HIWU is led by Executive Director Ben Mosier, who has overseen anti-doping programs for the NBA, the PGA Tour, MLB's Minor League Program, and NASCAR.

HIWU's chief of operations, Kate Mittelstadt, previously served as director of the Anti-Doping Program for IRONMAN and has held multiple roles with the World Anti-Doping Agency and Association of National Anti-Doping Organizations. Mittelstadt was also one of the first employees hired by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency.

HIWU's general counsel, Michelle Pujals, was a member of the NBA's legal department for more than 20 years, where her duties included results management for, and investigations related to, the NBA's various drug programs and allegations of player and staff misconduct. Before joining HIWU, she was the owner and principal of Tautemo Consulting, LLC, a legal and sports consulting firm.

HIWU Chief of Science Dr. Mary Scollay was most recently the executive director and chief operating officer of the Racing Medication & Testing Consortium, prior to which she worked for more than 30 years as a racing regulatory veterinarian, including 11 years as the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission's equine medical director.

How does the ADMC adjudication process work and what happens if someone is charged with a violation?

Violations under the ADMC Program are categorized as Anti-Doping Rule Violations (ADRV), which involve Banned Substances and Methods, or Controlled Medication Rule Violations (CMRV), which involve Controlled Medications and Methods. There will be harsher penalties associated with ADRVs.

ADRV cases will be heard by an Arbitral Body chosen and appointed to cases by JAMS, a world-renowned arbitration and mediation provider with a panel of retired lawyers and judges who are experienced in anti-doping and sports adjudication. Before selecting individuals to hear cases, JAMS will ensure that there are no conflicts of interest between potential adjudicators and the Covered Person(s) involved.

CMRV cases will be heard by appointees to the Internal Adjudication Panel (IAP), a group of 15-20 members selected by HISA and HIWU based on their previous equine regulatory experience. The IAP pool includes state stewards, who are only permitted to hear cases that do not originate in the state in which they are employed, and others with equine regulatory experience. IAP members will be appointed to hear specific CMRV cases on a rotating basis following conflicts-of-interest checks.

All members of both the Arbitral Body and IAP must undergo initial training and continuing education on the ADMC regulations to be eligible to hear and decide cases.

When charged with an ADRV, Covered Persons and Horses will usually be issued Provisional Suspensions, during which time they will be ineligible to train or race until the matter has been resolved and associated penalties have been served. Covered Persons subject to Provisional Suspension are not permitted to be involved in any activity involving a Covered Horse at a racetrack or public training facility. They can, however, request a timely Provisional Hearing to advocate for lifting the Provisional Suspension.

For most alleged CMRVs, Provisional Suspensions will not be issued unless the Controlled Medication was used within a period of Ineligibility defined in the Prohibited List.

For both ADRV and CMRV cases, Covered Persons are entitled to the opportunity to provide written submissions and present evidence on their behalf to the assigned adjudicator(s).

HIWU is required to publicly disclose the resolution of an ADMC Program case within 20 days of (1) a final decision, (2) a resolution between HIWU and the Covered Person, or (3) the withdrawal of a charge by HIWU. Final decisions of the Arbitral Body and IAP can be appealed to a federal Administrative Law Judge.

ADMC violations that arise from a Post-Race Sample or that occur during the Race Period automatically lead to the disqualification of race-day results. For ADRVs, any other results that the Covered Horse obtained from the date the ADRV first occurred will also be disqualified.

If a horse is disqualified due to an ADRV or CMRV, all purses and other prizes will be forfeited and redistributed accordingly. When possible, the purse for the Covered Horse involved in the alleged violation will be withheld until a resolution has been reached.

While the purse will be affected by ADMC violations and disqualifications, the wagering payouts that are published after a race is declared official on race day are the final payouts, regardless of any disqualifications subsequently issued.

How are HISA and HIWU preparing the sport for implementation of the rules?

HIWU staff have so far visited all racetracks that will be racing on March 27 and met with local test barn staff, veterinarians, stewards, and other personnel to observe current practices, evaluate test barn facilities, and help prepare personnel on the ground for the implementation of the ADMC Program. HIWU will visit each racetrack prior to their next meet start date after March 27 and hold in-person training events for test barn personnel prior to collections being conducted at each location. Over the last several months, the HIWU team has also met with industry stakeholder groups in-person and virtually to discuss the ADMC Program and answer questions.

HIWU plans to visit numerous tracks ahead of the expected March 27 implementation date to talk to stakeholders and encourages industry organizations interested in hosting informational sessions where members can speak with the HIWU team to email info@hiwu.org to request to schedule a virtual or in-person meeting. Visits and outreach will continue after implementation, as well.

The HIWU website is also home to educational material on the Prohibited List, Detection Times and Screening Limits, test types, results management, and more. Additional educational materials will continue to be published and shared broadly with the industry.

How will the ADMC rules improve racing and help the sport grow?

The ADMC Program is central to HISA's mission to ensure the integrity of racing to the benefit of participants, fans, and bettors. HISA's rules are designed to improve the safety and welfare of horses and restore public trust in the sport.

Bettors will be able to trust that the product on the track is fair and that cheaters are not welcome in Thoroughbred racing. All signs indicate that the enforcement of consistent, national ADMC rules will ultimately lead to broader public interest, including from younger audiences, and increased wagering.

Importantly, besides making the sport safer and fairer, the ADMC Program will also make the jobs of many horsemen easier as the patchwork of state-by-state rules are replaced with a unified, streamlined anti-doping regulatory system.

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Phil D’Amato Q&A: ‘You Don’t Have To Spend A Lot To Find A Going Global’

One of the finest turf trainers in America, Phil D'Amato has done exceptionally well with his European imports in recent years, highlighted by Grade I winner Going Global and more recently American Oaks scorer Rhea Moon.

In this week's Q&A with Brian Sheerin, D'Amato explained how, with the help of Niall Dalton, Craig Rounsefell and BBA Ireland's Michael Donohoe, he has built one of the most competitive stables in America.

Read about his approach to finding 'diamonds in the rough' on a budget, his training methods and much more.

Brian Sheerin: You do extremely well with your imports from Britain and Ireland. What is it that you look for in form horses when you go about recruiting them from Europe?

Phil D'Amato: There are a number of factors. First and foremost, you need a horse that you think will handle a firm turf course and you can gauge that by the tracks that they have been running at in Europe and how they are handling that. If you don't have a good gauge on how they would handle the American turf, then you can check how the pedigree has done in the States and if that suggests they are prone to do better on firm ground. Number two, they definitely need a turn of foot. All turf races over here, from the quarter pole home, you need to show a good turn of foot. I definitely like to see that over horses who are more staying types in Europe. Horses who go to the lead in Europe and try to make all, those horses don't tend to do well in America, you need something with acceleration. Those are the big things for us. Conformation is another. I don't think conformation plays as big a part in Europe, especially with the amount of homebreds that race and the forgiving training surfaces, but in the States, conformation plays a much bigger role as our courses are not as forgiving. You need a horse with good conformation over here, one that's going to hit the ground square, so that it will be able to stay sound for you.

You've built up a top-class recruitment team with Michael Donohoe and Niall Dalton coming up with a lot of the goods.

You have to give them a lot of credit. I've also had a lot of good luck with Craig Rounsefell-all of those gentlemen know what to look for. They are trying to find the diamond in the rough and prove that you don't have to spend a lot of money to find a Going Global (Ire) (Mehmas {Ire}).They have good connections with the trainers and know who the sellers are. There are a lot of sellers in Britain and Ireland, as that's how a lot of these guys make their money given the prize-money over there, and not everyone can train for a Sheikh or somebody who is very wealthy. They need to trade so, in that respect, Niall, Michael and Craig know the people who will lead them the right way. They continue to buy horses from those people.

And is it purely form horses that you buy from Europe or have you ever dipped your toe into breeze-up or even yearling markets?

We have bought a breeze-up horse or two but it's mostly horses who have run. I prefer to see a horse who has run at least twice and I am not a big fan of the horses who have run just once. To me, it seems like the horses who have run at least twice or more, they come over here to America and they seem to be hardier horses. You have a better handle on them and they tend to cope with the training better as well. They are better than the one-off horse who's run third or fourth. I just like horses who have been able to show their form a couple of times but, the flip side of that means that, getting to see a bit more often means that you have to pay that bit more. It has its pluses and minuses.

I'd love to know what expectations you had for Going Global when you bought her after she won a Dundalk nursery off a mark of 70. Could you ever have envisaged that she'd improve to the level that she has?

Well, you know what, Michael Donohoe is really good friends with her former trainer Michael Halford, and we had bought horses from him before. Going Global had gotten sick previously and hadn't run well before she won at Dundalk but they had good reasons as to why she hadn't been running well. We knew that story coming into the race and then, when she did produce at Dundalk, it was time to strike. We had a little bit of extra insight into buying her and Halford liked the way that filly had been training for a while so he guided us in the right direction. That was the story there.

You touched on the fact that a lot of trainers over here in Ireland where I am based, their business model accounts for trading horses, and Michael Halford would be up there with one of the best at that. Are there certain trainers you like to return to?

We have a good rapport with a lot of people and there are a lot of people who lead us the right way. It's the people who are going to leave a little extra in the tank who we are interested in buying off. That's the way I train my horses and I don't like to have them fully cranked first-time up. I like to let them develop through their races and I try to buy my horses off like-minded people. You need to try and buy a horse who is likely to continue to develop over here in the States. You know the yards that are crack first-time out specialists and I try to stay away from those trainers because all of their horses usually show everything they have first-time out. It's the guys who leave a little extra in the tank and like to let them develop race to race, those are the guys we like working with.

What would be the key differences between the European horses compared to the American-breds who you have grown up with?

Size and conformation are the big things. To buy a dirt horse versus a grass horse, it's apples and oranges. You are looking at the horse totally differently. A dirt horse has a big thick bone, and a big hind end, gaskins and forearms, that can withstand training and pushing through the dirt. Your turf horse is a bit more angular, lighter of body and bone, just a little bit more agile. You need to put two different caps on when you are looking to buy a dirt horse versus a grass horse.

And when it comes to acclimatising a European import, what is your approach to that?

They are all different and all treated as individuals. I like to gradually build them up and let them tell me when they are ready to do more and start breezing. Some horses take a month before you breeze them and others are ready to go within two weeks. They are all different. You can't put them in a cookie-cutter training style as they all needed to be treated differently.

When you go down through the imports that you have done well with in America, there are no Galileos, Frankels or Dubawis in there, which makes the achievements all the more impressive.

We mostly have horses by mid-range stallions, because we can afford them. We're not looking to buy a Galileo (Ire), Frankel (GB) or Dubawi (Ire) for half a million dollars, our budget is much less than that. Those are the stallions we look at, the ones that produce the goods but who are within our price range. We bought horses by Mehmas at the right time but now that stallion is moving up the ladder. It's all about leaving that to Michael and Niall, who are great at that. What's an advantage is, they work the yearling sales as well and watch these horses develop through all of the different yards. They have keen insights from when they hit the sales ground right up until when they race. That's a big advantage.

American Oaks winner Rhea Moon (Ire) (Starspangledbanner {Aus}) is the latest star European import to grab the headlines for your stable. How did she come on your radar? In many ways she was quite unexposed given she'd only had the two starts in Ireland for Ken Condon.

She ran a really good second to a Juddmonte colt [Straight Answer (GB) (Kodiac {GB})] on her second start at the Curragh and that horse came out and won a stakes race not too long afterwards. She had good sneaky form in that she came out of a live race and ran a good second. Again, she came from a good yard that develops them the right way instead of having them cranked to the gills first-time out, so she looked a nice prospect. We went after her and thankfully we were able to get her.

You touched on how important a turn of foot is on the American turf racing scene. She showed that when winning the Oaks. Where next for her now?

She's in steady training right now and we will probably run her some time in March or April with a view towards a prep for the Gamely S., that's a Grade I, which we have in late April. Hopefully that will launch her 4-year-old campaign and lead us towards the Breeders' Cup in November.

Given the prize-money situation in Britain and Ireland, have you had much interaction with owners from this part of the world who are interested in placing their horses in training directly with you rather than selling them abroad?

I actually have started to get overseas owners going that route as opposed to me buying them. We'll see how that goes. I got a filly sent to me, called With Love (GB) (Territories {Ire}), who is owned by Atomic Racing in Ireland.

Look at a filly like Bellabel (Ire) (Belardo {Ire}); she won a race worth €6,490 on her final start for Jessica Harrington in Ireland but has won almost $200,000 in America which is borderline insane.

She was another nice pick by Michael Donohoe. He has many clients who have horses in training with Jessica and she recommended us to buy her as the owner wanted to sell. We were in the right place at the right time. We gave her a little break and she'll also be back towards the end of the month. Hopefully she's another nice prospect for us.

Has it been a conscious decision for you to concentrate on turf racing in America over the dirt?

The concentration on turf has really come down to budget. In America, if you want to compete with the Bob Bafferts, Todd Pletchers and Steve Asmussens of the world, it costs a lot of money. Those gentlemen have many million-dollar yearlings to work with and, to try and compete against that, you have to have a ginormous budget. I am lucky to have good owners with good budgets but nowhere near that. You can buy a good European horse for a fifth or a tenth of that price. It seems that, in turf racing, too, these horses seem to have a little more longevity and can be campaigned for an extra year or two. The racing is really more about that last quarter burst over the punishing grind from start to finish on dirt. That's why these horses seem to last longer and get the chance to develop into stakes horses or, for the fillies, into breeding prospects.

Where do you see the future of turf racing in America? It seems to be expanding and growing so it could be an exciting position to be in.

I really see that. I see an expansion of turf racing across the country for many of those reasons; the longevity of the horses and people seem to like the last quarter mile compared to dirt races that can be decided right out of the gate sometimes. People like to enjoy seeing their horses run over a long period of time and so turf racing fits that category.

Could we ever see a Phil D'Amato-trained runner at Royal Ascot?

One day. That definitely is a dream. I know Wesley Ward has been successful at Royal Ascot. You definitely need to bring the right horse but, one day, it would be a dream for me to do something like that.

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‘We Just About Break Even: Prize-Money Is Ludicrous In Britain’

Mick Appleby will bid to begin the new year with a bang when stable star Raasel lines out in the Dubai Dash at Meydan. Appleby will run four horses in total at Meydan over the coming weeks and months, all of whom cost just over £60,000 combined, which illustrates the Northern England-based trainer's ability to sniff out a bargain at the sales.

In this week's Starfield Stud-sponsored Conversations Q&A, Appleby discusses his approach to sourcing talent, speaks out on the poor prize-money in Britain and how difficult it is to stay afloat as a trainer as well as expressing a desire to train quality 2-year-olds in the future.

Brian Sheerin: It's an exciting time for the yard with four runners in Dubai to look forward to in the upcoming weeks.

Mick Appleby: It is and we've got Raasel (GB) (Showcasing {GB}) running in the Dubai Dash on Friday. The favourite, Man Of Promise (Into Mischief), is a very good horse and he should be hard to beat. But hopefully Raasel can make us all proud and run a good race. If we finish in the first four we'd be delighted.

BS: There could be a lot of prize-money to be won with Raasel in Dubai over the coming weeks and months.

MA: There are only two five-furlong races on grass and he'll go for those. We might try him over six furlongs as well because, if he's going to get that trip anywhere, Meydan is where he will get it as it's such an easy track and he'd get quick ground there as well. If he was to run well over six furlongs, there is the possibility of him staying out there for World Cup Night. We'll try him over that trip first and see how it goes.

BS: Have you anything in mind for him on home turf this season or does his programme almost map itself out? In hindsight, it was an excellent run to be beaten a little over four lengths in the G1 Prix de l'Abbaye.

MA: It could be a big year for him. He ran very well at Longchamp and the draw did him on the day. He was just drawn on the wrong side and never really had any chance from there so I thought he ran really well that day. If he'd have been drawn on the other side, I think he'd have gone very close. He'll be campaigned very similar to last season and will be targeted at pretty much the same races.

BS: It's remarkable that all four horses you are running in Dubai cost less than 20,000gns apiece. What can you tell us about them?

MA: Edraak (Ire) (Elzaam {Aus}) will hopefully run on Jan. 20 in the 0-105 handicap. I am just waiting to hear back from the handicapper to let me know if he is dropping him in the weights or not. He's been off for six months because he did a suspensory in front when he was due to run at Newcastle. He should have been reassessed after being off for six months and, if he does get dropped, I think he'd have a very good chance. United Front (War Front) and Ayr Harbour (GB) (Harbour Watch {Ire}) will be campaigned on the dirt. They are good all-weather horses and Ayr Harbour in particular has shown some very good form on the old fibersand at Southwell so he could do quite well on the dirt out there. Same with United Front, he's been a good all-weather horse for us and I think he'll be fine on the dirt out there.

BS: What do you look for in a dirt horse?

MA: The American-bred horses seem to do a lot better on dirt and United Front obviously has an American pedigree. Basically, you need a big strong horse. I found that out when I went to South Korea with Annaf (Ire) (Muhaarar {GB}) last year. The dirt was just far too deep for him. I am going to try and go back out there this year and would try to buy horses specifically to go out there. I'd be looking at American-bred horses to go out there. The prize-money is absolutely amazing in South Korea.

BS: And what is it that you look for in horses at the sales in general as few trainers–if any–have a better reputation for rejuvenating tried horses.

MA: The Dixon brothers, Matt Taylor and Richard O'Brien are very good on form. They will pick horses out at the sales strictly on form. They will see things that I can't see. Likewise, I will see things that they can't see when it comes to physical issues with a horse and that's why the whole thing works so well.

BS: And what would you not forgive physically when buying at the horses-in-training sales?

MA: Knees are the big thing with me. It's very hard to get a horse right if they have bad knees. It's very hard to get them back if their knees are gone.

BS: Too many horses have improved for joining your yard for it to be put down to a simple change of scenery. What routine do they go into and how do you go about finding the improvement?

MA: It sounds simple but you have to find what the problems are and try and manage them. The other thing is, don't train them too hard. Actually, I think that is the key, not training them too hard. Just keep them sweet. You also have to give each horse the individual attention that it needs. Okay, it's got harder to do that with the more horses that we have got but the most I'd ever train at one time is 80. That's the number where you can manage it all and keep an eye on everything that's going on with each horse.

BS: You must have a great team to be even able to apply such individual care to 80 horses. That must be a huge advantage as a lot of yards are struggling to find staff right now.

MA: A lot of the staff that we have here have been with us for a long time. But it is a big problem, getting staff, and we could possibly do with a couple more riders. Getting groundstaff is not as hard. Anyone can muck a stable out. But riding a horse is a completely different skill and we find it hard to get the good riders. When you have the likes of Godolphin offering mega money to work riders, you just can't compete with that.

BS: And how have you found competing in the sales ring throughout the past year? Even for those middle to lower tier handicappers, the prices have sky-rocketed.

MA: It's been a lot tougher buying those bottom-end horses the past few years. We are not prepared to pay over the odds. We might go a little bit more than what we think a horse is worth if we really want it but we are not prepared to pay three or four times the true value. Why would you? Some of these horses are not worth what people are prepared to pay for them. The days are gone when I could go out and buy Art Scholar (Ire) (Pyrus) and Lockantanks (GB) (Compton Place {GB}) for five hundred quid apiece. You can't do that now. We're a little bit down on numbers as a result but that's probably not a bad thing because of the staff situation. We've 80 horses in and we're happy with that.

BS: The quality of the yard seems to be growing every year. You sent out 107 winners last year and recorded a record haul of £1,438,497 in prize-money in Britain.

MA: We'd 109 winners the year before but only won about £1.2million in prize-money so the quality is growing. But prize-money is a big issue in British racing. Owners are leaving the sport because it's just not viable. It's meant to be a hobby for owners but it's becoming a very expensive one. There's no way that you should be winning a race and it's not covering your costs for the month. If you win a Class 5 or 6 race in Britain, you will be very lucky to cover your costs for the month. It shouldn't be that way.

BS: Take Win Win Power (Ire) (Exceed And Excel {Aus} as an example the other day. He won first time up for you at Southwell but won just £3,402.

MA: I bought him for £2,000 at the Ascot Sale in November, so he has paid for himself, but that's ridiculous prize-money. There's no way you should be running for less than £10,000 in this day and age. There's so many owners leaving racing now because it doesn't make economic sense.

BS: Is there anything you can do as a trainer to incentivise owners having a horse in training with you?

MA: Not really. We run it to a tight budget as it is. We are only £55 per day and are a lot cheaper than the majority of other trainers in the country. We can't slice it any other way. We just about break even and we're not making money out of it. Put it this way, if I was looking at coming into training now, I wouldn't do it. It's a good lifestyle but, is it a viable business? No, it isn't. Unless you have a bottomless pit of money, it's not viable. Obviously I've been doing it long enough to have built everything up but, if I was coming into it now, there's no way I'd be able to get where I have. Somebody needs to stand up and do something about the prize-money situation, otherwise there will be a lot more people leaving racing in this country.

BS: How frustrating is it when you rattle off a series of wins with a horse, feel you've done a great job with it but still haven't cleared what it costs to train the animal for a year?

MA: There's horses we've won five or six races with and they might only have won 20 grand. It's ludicrous. Owners would rightly look at that and think, 'why bother?' Being in horses now, you've got to do it for the love of it.

BS: Could you see things changing even five or 10 years down the line?

MA: Unless the BHA, the ROA and the NTF get their heads together and do something to sort this mess out, well then it's never going to change. They just bury their heads in the sand and don't do anything about it. The worst thing that ever happened is the Tote being sold off. The bookmakers need to be putting more money back into the sport. Look at the profits Bet 365 made last year. How much of that went back into racing?

BS: On that note, I interviewed Charles Byrnes a few years ago after he recorded a slew of bumper gambles and he was pretty forthright in saying that the money he won was necessary to keep the business in lights. When the money comes for one trained by Mick Appleby it is always very well-respected. Do you bet yourself?

MA: Not really. I don't really gamble because I'm a bad loser. It's not very often I'd have a bet on one of my own horses. If I'm having a bet, it's more likely to be on football. We've owners who like betting. We get our horses fit and well. A lot of the time, they will win first time out. Everyone seems to have cottoned on to that now and you'd see horses of ours who may not even necessarily be that well fancied and they'd be going off as odds-on favourites in races. People think we're going to just improve every single horse and it's going to be winning first time out for us. There's been times when horses of ours have gone off odds-on and we'd be thinking, 'bloody hell, who'd back that.' Then when it does get beat, all you get is abuse from people online.

BS: I know you've had some major successes on the grass but do you feel slightly pigeonholed as an all-weather trainer or as a trainer who just does well with other people's castoffs? Is there part of you that would like to start taking on more yearlings with a view to training 2-year-olds?

MA: Obviously we have been pigeonholed. People think we can just train handicappers, basically. Nobody associates us for having nice yearlings or 2-year-olds but that's only because we've never been sent any. There's no other reason whatsoever. We've had 2-year-old winners–I think we'd half a dozen 2-year-old runners last year and one winner. You can't run them if you don't have them. Aquarius (Ire) (Charm Spirit {Ire}) won first time out at Newmarket a couple of seasons ago, beating a Godolphin hotpot, but then there are still some people who think we can't train 2-year-olds. I can only train what I have. I'd love an owner to come along and say, here's two million quid, go and buy some yearlings. Then we'd be able to show people we can train 2-year-olds.

BS: You do extremely well with what you train and I know that Martin Dixon plays an integral role in the operation as a race planner. How much of an advantage has that been?

MA: Martin started off doing my entries a couple of years ago as I'd got a lot more horses and I was going racing a lot more so I was finding it hard to do everything. It's working very well.

BS: And how will you approach having runners in Dubai over the coming weeks? Will you go over a few times?

MA: We have two lads out there and one of them has been there before so he knows the ropes. They send us What'sApp videos every day and they have all settled in great. I am going out next Wednesday to see Ayr Harbour and United Front running on the Friday. I'll stay out there for two or three days and will continue to come back and forward.

BS: Another thing that is close to your heart is the Racing And Pride campaign that promotes racing as being everybody's sport and the LGBTQ+ community. You put yourself out there for that campaign. Do you think it was a good thing or is there much more to be done?

MA: There's always more that can be done but it was definitely a step forward. I came out as gay 15 or 16 years ago. You're always going to get certain people who will look down their nose at you and think you're a bloody alien or something but that's up to them. I just get on with my life and live it as I want to live it.

BS: But obviously you're in the public domain so I imagine it helped quite a few people to see a prominent trainer come out as gay.

MA: Quite a few people came up to me at the races actually. A lot of people thanked me for speaking out so I think it probably helped a lot of people. If it helped one person, that's all that matters.

The post ‘We Just About Break Even: Prize-Money Is Ludicrous In Britain’ appeared first on TDN | Thoroughbred Daily News | Horse Racing News, Results and Video | Thoroughbred Breeding and Auctions.

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