Mick Appleby will bid to begin the new year with a bang when stable star Raasel lines out in the Dubai Dash at Meydan. Appleby will run four horses in total at Meydan over the coming weeks and months, all of whom cost just over £60,000 combined, which illustrates the Northern England-based trainer's ability to sniff out a bargain at the sales.
  In this week's Starfield Stud-sponsored Conversations Q&A, Appleby discusses his approach to sourcing talent, speaks out on the poor prize-money in Britain and how difficult it is to stay afloat as a trainer as well as expressing a desire to train quality 2-year-olds in the future.
Brian Sheerin: It's an exciting time for the yard with four runners in Dubai to look forward to in the upcoming weeks.
Mick Appleby: It is and we've got Raasel (GB) (Showcasing {GB}) running in the Dubai Dash on Friday. The favourite, Man Of Promise (Into Mischief), is a very good horse and he should be hard to beat. But hopefully Raasel can make us all proud and run a good race. If we finish in the first four we'd be delighted.
BS: There could be a lot of prize-money to be won with Raasel in Dubai over the coming weeks and months.
MA: There are only two five-furlong races on grass and he'll go for those. We might try him over six furlongs as well because, if he's going to get that trip anywhere, Meydan is where he will get it as it's such an easy track and he'd get quick ground there as well. If he was to run well over six furlongs, there is the possibility of him staying out there for World Cup Night. We'll try him over that trip first and see how it goes.
BS: Have you anything in mind for him on home turf this season or does his programme almost map itself out? In hindsight, it was an excellent run to be beaten a little over four lengths in the G1 Prix de l'Abbaye.
MA: It could be a big year for him. He ran very well at Longchamp and the draw did him on the day. He was just drawn on the wrong side and never really had any chance from there so I thought he ran really well that day. If he'd have been drawn on the other side, I think he'd have gone very close. He'll be campaigned very similar to last season and will be targeted at pretty much the same races.
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BS: It's remarkable that all four horses you are running in Dubai cost less than 20,000gns apiece. What can you tell us about them?
MA: Edraak (Ire) (Elzaam {Aus}) will hopefully run on Jan. 20 in the 0-105 handicap. I am just waiting to hear back from the handicapper to let me know if he is dropping him in the weights or not. He's been off for six months because he did a suspensory in front when he was due to run at Newcastle. He should have been reassessed after being off for six months and, if he does get dropped, I think he'd have a very good chance. United Front (War Front) and Ayr Harbour (GB) (Harbour Watch {Ire}) will be campaigned on the dirt. They are good all-weather horses and Ayr Harbour in particular has shown some very good form on the old fibersand at Southwell so he could do quite well on the dirt out there. Same with United Front, he's been a good all-weather horse for us and I think he'll be fine on the dirt out there.
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BS: What do you look for in a dirt horse?
MA: The American-bred horses seem to do a lot better on dirt and United Front obviously has an American pedigree. Basically, you need a big strong horse. I found that out when I went to South Korea with Annaf (Ire) (Muhaarar {GB}) last year. The dirt was just far too deep for him. I am going to try and go back out there this year and would try to buy horses specifically to go out there. I'd be looking at American-bred horses to go out there. The prize-money is absolutely amazing in South Korea.
BS: And what is it that you look for in horses at the sales in general as few trainers–if any–have a better reputation for rejuvenating tried horses.
MA: The Dixon brothers, Matt Taylor and Richard O'Brien are very good on form. They will pick horses out at the sales strictly on form. They will see things that I can't see. Likewise, I will see things that they can't see when it comes to physical issues with a horse and that's why the whole thing works so well.
BS: And what would you not forgive physically when buying at the horses-in-training sales?
MA: Knees are the big thing with me. It's very hard to get a horse right if they have bad knees. It's very hard to get them back if their knees are gone.
BS: Too many horses have improved for joining your yard for it to be put down to a simple change of scenery. What routine do they go into and how do you go about finding the improvement?
MA: It sounds simple but you have to find what the problems are and try and manage them. The other thing is, don't train them too hard. Actually, I think that is the key, not training them too hard. Just keep them sweet. You also have to give each horse the individual attention that it needs. Okay, it's got harder to do that with the more horses that we have got but the most I'd ever train at one time is 80. That's the number where you can manage it all and keep an eye on everything that's going on with each horse.
BS: You must have a great team to be even able to apply such individual care to 80 horses. That must be a huge advantage as a lot of yards are struggling to find staff right now.
MA: A lot of the staff that we have here have been with us for a long time. But it is a big problem, getting staff, and we could possibly do with a couple more riders. Getting groundstaff is not as hard. Anyone can muck a stable out. But riding a horse is a completely different skill and we find it hard to get the good riders. When you have the likes of Godolphin offering mega money to work riders, you just can't compete with that.
BS: And how have you found competing in the sales ring throughout the past year? Even for those middle to lower tier handicappers, the prices have sky-rocketed.
MA: It's been a lot tougher buying those bottom-end horses the past few years. We are not prepared to pay over the odds. We might go a little bit more than what we think a horse is worth if we really want it but we are not prepared to pay three or four times the true value. Why would you? Some of these horses are not worth what people are prepared to pay for them. The days are gone when I could go out and buy Art Scholar (Ire) (Pyrus) and Lockantanks (GB) (Compton Place {GB}) for five hundred quid apiece. You can't do that now. We're a little bit down on numbers as a result but that's probably not a bad thing because of the staff situation. We've 80 horses in and we're happy with that.
BS: The quality of the yard seems to be growing every year. You sent out 107 winners last year and recorded a record haul of £1,438,497 in prize-money in Britain.
MA: We'd 109 winners the year before but only won about £1.2million in prize-money so the quality is growing. But prize-money is a big issue in British racing. Owners are leaving the sport because it's just not viable. It's meant to be a hobby for owners but it's becoming a very expensive one. There's no way that you should be winning a race and it's not covering your costs for the month. If you win a Class 5 or 6 race in Britain, you will be very lucky to cover your costs for the month. It shouldn't be that way.
BS: Take Win Win Power (Ire) (Exceed And Excel {Aus} as an example the other day. He won first time up for you at Southwell but won just £3,402.
MA: I bought him for £2,000 at the Ascot Sale in November, so he has paid for himself, but that's ridiculous prize-money. There's no way you should be running for less than £10,000 in this day and age. There's so many owners leaving racing now because it doesn't make economic sense.
BS: Is there anything you can do as a trainer to incentivise owners having a horse in training with you?
MA: Not really. We run it to a tight budget as it is. We are only £55 per day and are a lot cheaper than the majority of other trainers in the country. We can't slice it any other way. We just about break even and we're not making money out of it. Put it this way, if I was looking at coming into training now, I wouldn't do it. It's a good lifestyle but, is it a viable business? No, it isn't. Unless you have a bottomless pit of money, it's not viable. Obviously I've been doing it long enough to have built everything up but, if I was coming into it now, there's no way I'd be able to get where I have. Somebody needs to stand up and do something about the prize-money situation, otherwise there will be a lot more people leaving racing in this country.
BS: How frustrating is it when you rattle off a series of wins with a horse, feel you've done a great job with it but still haven't cleared what it costs to train the animal for a year?
MA: There's horses we've won five or six races with and they might only have won 20 grand. It's ludicrous. Owners would rightly look at that and think, 'why bother?' Being in horses now, you've got to do it for the love of it.
BS: Could you see things changing even five or 10 years down the line?
MA: Unless the BHA, the ROA and the NTF get their heads together and do something to sort this mess out, well then it's never going to change. They just bury their heads in the sand and don't do anything about it. The worst thing that ever happened is the Tote being sold off. The bookmakers need to be putting more money back into the sport. Look at the profits Bet 365 made last year. How much of that went back into racing?
BS: On that note, I interviewed Charles Byrnes a few years ago after he recorded a slew of bumper gambles and he was pretty forthright in saying that the money he won was necessary to keep the business in lights. When the money comes for one trained by Mick Appleby it is always very well-respected. Do you bet yourself?
MA: Not really. I don't really gamble because I'm a bad loser. It's not very often I'd have a bet on one of my own horses. If I'm having a bet, it's more likely to be on football. We've owners who like betting. We get our horses fit and well. A lot of the time, they will win first time out. Everyone seems to have cottoned on to that now and you'd see horses of ours who may not even necessarily be that well fancied and they'd be going off as odds-on favourites in races. People think we're going to just improve every single horse and it's going to be winning first time out for us. There's been times when horses of ours have gone off odds-on and we'd be thinking, 'bloody hell, who'd back that.' Then when it does get beat, all you get is abuse from people online.
BS: I know you've had some major successes on the grass but do you feel slightly pigeonholed as an all-weather trainer or as a trainer who just does well with other people's castoffs? Is there part of you that would like to start taking on more yearlings with a view to training 2-year-olds?
MA: Obviously we have been pigeonholed. People think we can just train handicappers, basically. Nobody associates us for having nice yearlings or 2-year-olds but that's only because we've never been sent any. There's no other reason whatsoever. We've had 2-year-old winners–I think we'd half a dozen 2-year-old runners last year and one winner. You can't run them if you don't have them. Aquarius (Ire) (Charm Spirit {Ire}) won first time out at Newmarket a couple of seasons ago, beating a Godolphin hotpot, but then there are still some people who think we can't train 2-year-olds. I can only train what I have. I'd love an owner to come along and say, here's two million quid, go and buy some yearlings. Then we'd be able to show people we can train 2-year-olds.
BS: You do extremely well with what you train and I know that Martin Dixon plays an integral role in the operation as a race planner. How much of an advantage has that been?
MA: Martin started off doing my entries a couple of years ago as I'd got a lot more horses and I was going racing a lot more so I was finding it hard to do everything. It's working very well.
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BS: And how will you approach having runners in Dubai over the coming weeks? Will you go over a few times?
MA: We have two lads out there and one of them has been there before so he knows the ropes. They send us What'sApp videos every day and they have all settled in great. I am going out next Wednesday to see Ayr Harbour and United Front running on the Friday. I'll stay out there for two or three days and will continue to come back and forward.
BS: Another thing that is close to your heart is the Racing And Pride campaign that promotes racing as being everybody's sport and the LGBTQ+ community. You put yourself out there for that campaign. Do you think it was a good thing or is there much more to be done?
MA: There's always more that can be done but it was definitely a step forward. I came out as gay 15 or 16 years ago. You're always going to get certain people who will look down their nose at you and think you're a bloody alien or something but that's up to them. I just get on with my life and live it as I want to live it.
BS: But obviously you're in the public domain so I imagine it helped quite a few people to see a prominent trainer come out as gay.
MA: Quite a few people came up to me at the races actually. A lot of people thanked me for speaking out so I think it probably helped a lot of people. If it helped one person, that's all that matters.
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