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James Harron Q&A: ‘Foxwedge Really Got Things Going For Me’

James Harron is one of the most respected operators of his craft internationally. Based in Australia, the native of Northern Ireland credits Gai Waterhouse, agent George Smith and Winx (Aus)'s breeder John Camilleri of Fairway Thoroughbreds as being some of the key influences in his career.

Foxwedge (Aus) is the horse who got the ball rolling for Harron Down Under. He sourced the high-class sprinter-turned-stallion as a yearling and, from there, refined the art of making stallions on a commercial level through colt partnerships.

It's a little under 10 years ago when Harron secured the backing of a team of investors who purchase 10 to 15 yearlings every year with a view to blooding them into stallion prospects through success on the racetrack. 'TDN Rising Star' and subsequent G1 Golden Slipper hero Capitalist (Aus) and King's Legacy (Aus) are graduates of this hugely successful system.

Portfolio management and filly partnerships are also listed among the services he manages under the banner of James Harron Bloodstock and, as one of the slot holders in The Everest, he has won the race with Redzel (Aus) in 2017 and again this year with Giga Kick (Aus).

Harron also manages a number broodmare bands, including Morningside Stud, who he purchased a mare on behalf of at Fasig-Tipton last week. He then sat down with Brian Sheerin at Keeneland to discuss his career in bloodstock and the benefits that come with being based in Australia for this week's Q&A.

Brian Sheerin: Tell us a bit about your background.

James Harron: I've worked with horses most of my life. I spent my school holidays down in Coolmore in Tipperary, rode out for a few different National Hunt trainers and eventually I went to Enniskillen College. From there, I went to Paul Shanahan and then went to Australia for a three-month stint doing the yearling sales for Coolmore at Inglis. After that, I went to Gai Waterhouse for a week's work experience and that turned into a year. That was the start of me in Australia as I just fell in love with the place.

I also spent some time with Coolmore Australia and in a sales role with Hubie de Burgh. We travelled to a lot of different countries, including extensively in Australia, so that allowed me to pick up a really good client in the Batemans who allowed me to buy them some yearlings. We struck it off with a good colt in Foxwedge and one of their foundation mares in Satin Shoes (Aus) (Flying Spur {Aus}. That really gave me a launching pad so I went out on my own. I'm coming up on 11 years trading on my own but it feels like 40 years!

BS: What are the main advantages to trading in Australia?

JH: It's a very exciting marketplace but it was very different 10 years ago or 12 years ago. There is a huge level of interest among the general public and racing is a part of their culture. I just felt that it was very much an untapped market and agents weren't really a big thing when I came here whereas in Europe there were so many. In Australia, the trainers were buying all of their own horses or else their owners were, so the opportunity looked good. I just enjoy the atmosphere in Australia and the way that they do business. They are very amenable to giving a young person a start. It's part of their psyche, they want to give young people an opportunity. It has come together well and we have evolved as a business in terms of where we are focussing on. One of the biggest things that I am proud of is that we have pretty much got the exact same clients with us now as we did in the beginning. That means a lot. On top of that, our key staff Anna Ryan and Stephen Heath, have been with us from the start.

BS: You are recognised as one of the best judges of a yearling in the business. How did you get to where you are now?

JH: I was fortunate to be around the right people and was always listening and learning. Where things really clicked into place for me was when I was working with Gai Waterhouse. She had an agent, George Smith, who has had an incredible record over the years. He was fantastic to learn from. We would go around doing all of the pre inspections for Gai and he would write all of his notes by hand. I would then type up all of his notes into the computer system so that we had it all set up for Gai. We would sit there in the evenings having a few beers and he'd ask me, 'what's my rating on this or that,' and it really sunk in. He was amazing with his time and that was the time when things started coming together for me and dots began to get connected. You never stop learning and listening from the trainers to get feedback on all of the horses and try to refine it. The minute you think you are getting better at this job, you have a bad year–that's the game.

BS: It's one thing to have practical knowledge and another to make the shrewd business moves, which you have clearly done. Who was it that influenced you on that side of things?

JH: I have always enjoyed the business side of things. I have some great people around me, including clients of the agency, who are great people to learn from and I am able to bounce different things off them. Without singling too many people out, but John Camilleri has been a fantastic friend and mentor. It's a matter of identifying where you want to be in this industry and acknowledging what your strengths are within it. Most importantly, you need to know what people want out of your business and that was the biggest thing we wanted to identify. We tried to make it sensible for people to race horses and to give them an opportunity not to be just paying out bills but to put some form of a structure in place so that people could race horses in a somewhat commercially viable way.

BS: And what are the services that you provide and how have you developed your business in Australia?

JH: From an early stage, we wanted to work with the trainers and manage the horses on behalf of the owners throughout the whole process. We identified who we believed to be the best breakers, pre-trainers, spelling farms and we also have our own vet, Johnny Walker, who does all of our own inspections on a fortnightly basis and reports back to us as an independent. We are managing a tiny percentage of the horses a trainer would have in their stable so we can give it that little bit more attention and focus. We also work on the programming and have a form expert, Mark Shean, who works closely with us and he helps us with our placement in New South Wales. We have Deane Lester in Victoria as well. They are integral parts of the team. We just try our best to dot the is and cross the ts and get as much good data together [as possible]. The people who we work with, they really welcome the feedback and we work together to make plans and it's enjoyable. The owners are part of the whole process and fully understand where they are going. Plans don't always work out but it's nice to have some system in place.

BS: But when it does work out, especially when you make stallions like Capitalist and King's Legacy, that must give you huge pleasure.

JH: We were fortunate to have Foxwedge (Aus) early on. He won the G1 William Reid S. and was by Fastnet Rock (Aus). He became a high profile commodity and was sold to Henry Field and stood at Newgate Farm. That was their first ever stallion. From there, we bought more colts and found Australian Guineas winner Wandjina (Aus). I always had the idea of putting together a group of people to pool their resources together and try to buy more horses and give ourselves more opportunity to produce these colts to go to stud. What was really astonishing to me was how competitive it is to buy these stallions.

We felt like we wanted to be selling into that market more and more. A lot of our people are breeders so the idea would be to pick up a number of colts to race and try and get them to a high level. Then you can sell down equity to stud farms and also keep equity so they are a part of that process. Within that partnership group, Capitalist came along and it has been a wonderful story. They have continued to support him and he is a success on the track and in the sales ring. That's really the model.

We try to pick up between 10 and 15 colts per year and then produce a stallion prospect. The ones who aren't getting to that level can be traded to Hong Kong, which we have done every year and that has become quite helpful. We've had some nice horses go to race there. We have a very healthy domestic market with provincial and country racing and the ones who don't make stallions or don't have high enough ratings to be sold to Hong Kong can go on and have fruitful careers in Australia. It's pretty much about having a system that can identify the big horse who can make the step up.

BS: Physically, what are the main things you are looking for in a yearling?

JH: The big question we try to ask ourselves before we bid on a horse is, if he is successful on the track, would we want to send our best mares to that horse. That sounds a bit obvious but you need to know if he is by the right sire, has he got the right physique or is he from a good enough family. Sometimes you can become sidetracked by a really nice type who isn't by the right sire or doesn't have a good family and it's important to have a product that, if it is successful, we can fully get behind. You can see that by the stallions we have produced, the owners really get behind them and they get commercial books. King's Legacy for example, he covered the highest number of any first-season sire in his first year at stud. From a physical point of view, we are very much looking for a precocious type of horse. We look for one who can run as a 2-year-old and do everything that makes an Australian sire in terms of precocity, strength and robustness.

BS: Would you attribute Foxwedge for launching your career?

JH: He really got it going for me and came at a pivotal point, for sure. We used that as a springboard and there have been other pivotal moments along the way but he certainly was the first. Getting Capitalist in the first year of the colt partnership was also very important. They all mean something but those two were pivotal.

BS: And is there a particular moment that means the most to you? Was it a race or perhaps a particular deal that stands out?

JH: I was probably at a stage in life when I could really appreciate how significant Capitalist was when he came along. Winning a Golden Slipper, I mean it's the race you dream about and it's all you think about when you are looking at yearlings. When I'm looking at horses at the sales, I try to envisage a horse walking around the paddock ahead of the Golden Slipper.

BS: It must be quite rewarding to be seeing him do so well as a stallion.

JH: It is and all the owners follow his progeny no matter where they are running. It doesn't matter how big or small the race is, they are always cheering them home. We look forward to seeing the progeny of horses we have been attached to and try to pick some of them up and try to get them to the same level of their sires. It's a great part of the journey. It's a long and slow burn but, once it starts rolling, it's fantastic.

BS: And what are you doing here in Keeneland this week?

JH: We haven't been over here in Keeneland for a long time and only picked up a few here and there over the past few years through various different agents. The opportunity arose to come over this year and we've picked up a few mares. We got two mares at Fasig-Tipton; one will have a foal here and the other is empty. After that, they will travel to England and be covered by Frankel (GB) before coming home to Australia. We have broodmare partnerships, which is what the mare we bought in foal is for, and that consists of a handful of people from our colt syndicates as well. They can use their equity and play around with it that way. The other filly was bought on behalf of Morningside Stud. They have a beautiful band of broodmares.

BS: Do you see yourself doing more business internationally?

JH: To be honest, our big focus is Australia and we want it to remain that way. We are fortunate to have good relationships with different people around the world who we can work through and combine with if we need to. I do love the American broodmares for Australia and I think this is potentially going to be a sale that I will keep coming back to. It will be more sporadic than it being planned attending sales internationally. It will be more for when the opportunity arises. We have an amazing industry in Australia and it's a very exciting place to be.

BS: What makes Australia such a vibrant place to be based and what could we take out of the industry over there with a view towards European racing?

JH: There is a real mainstream interest in racing in Australia and it permeates through to every level. From the pubs with the TAB machines where they have the racing on, people have grown up with that and their parents or family members have taken a part-share in a horse. The culture is there. The fundamentals have been put in place with the rebate and gambling wagers coming back into prize-money. The administrators are very passionate and push hard. They have made some incredible additions to the racing calendar, most notably The Everest. The amount of people who told me that this year's Everest was their best day on a racetrack, I couldn't believe it. I was talking to some owners who have had 20 Group 1 winners but they said that The Everest was one of the most meaningful days that they have had racing. From the minute you walked in, the atmosphere and the amount of young people there, everything just came together. What that has done is brought in a new and younger demographic. They view The Everest as a cool new race and you just bump into every type, the butcher or the hairdresser, and all they want to talk about is The Everest.

BS: Is it just the prize-money that has captured the imagination for the race or is it the trading and the slots that goes with it?

JH: I think it's multi-faceted. The prize-money has pricked everybody's ears. That is probably the most significant part because I am not sure if many people under the age of 35 would understand exactly how the slots for the race works. I have to say, the media did a great job and they were calling you about it every day to see what was happening. There was just this share of information which goes on for 10 months and that helps to promote it.

BS: Especially when you leave it late.

JH: Yeah, I know! For different people with different interests, there are many attractions to the race and it's multi-faceted. People in the industry love the dealing side of the race while the young people love the day itself. There is no other day like it. It was just unbelievable.

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‘There’s An Opportunity In Every Horse And That’s How The Industry Exists’

Few people left an imprint at the Tattersalls Autumn Horses In Training Sale quite like Olly Tait. Under the banner of the newly-formed and Qatari-backed Wathnan Racing, Tait signed for nine horses to the tune of 1.75 million gns, headed by 450,000gns purchase Persian Royal (GB) (Al Kazeem {GB}).

Fitting that Tait has been tasked with growing Wathnan Racing into a formidable ownership vehicle in Qatar as it was the Australian native who was entrusted by Godolphin to get their Darley operation off the ground down under back in 2001.

Despite only being in his mid-20s at the time, Tait laid the foundations of the hugely successful Darley Australia arm that continues to flourish to this day.

It was in 2016 that Tait decided to take his experience working for Darley and set up Twin Hills Stud in Australia. With stallions like Smart Missile (Aus), Peltzer (Aus), Hallowed Crown (Aus), Denman (Aus) and Odyssey Moon (Aus) on the Twin Hills roster, the farm has become one of the most prominent studs in Australia in a relatively short period.

Tait has described the challenge of building Wathnan Racing into a force to be reckoned with in the Gulf as something that excites him and, despite playing in a vibrant market at Tattersalls last week, says he is delighted with the additions to the team in this week's Q&A.

Brian Sheerin: You picked up a good variety of horses at Tattersalls last week on behalf of Wathnan Racing. What was the modus operandi heading into that sale?

Olly Tait: There's a wide-ranging programme of racing in Qatar so, obviously, we were keen to buy horses who can win in the colours of Wathnan Racing this season and beyond. We got some horses at the higher end as we're hoping to find a horse capable of winning the Qatar Derby. Equally, there are a lot of nice handicaps to be won in Qatar, so we bought horses at all levels in order to make the stable successful. That's not just having horses who can run in the big races, it's buying horses who can win at all different levels.

BS: Tell us more about Wathnan Racing and how your relationship has developed.

OT: Wathnan Racing is a stable in Qatar and my connection to that is through Abdulhadi Mana Al-Hajri, who I have known for quite a while. He is now heading up that stable in Qatar and contacted me a few months ago asking if I would give him a hand.

BS: And what does the programme for these horses look like in Qatar? In short, what kind of horses are you seeking out and what are the profiles that you think will do well out there?

OT: There is Arabian and thoroughbred racing in Qatar at present but there is a wide-ranging programme there for racehorses over a variety of different trips from October through to March. There are a lot of races to be run and won in that time. As I said, we're looking for horses at every level and over a variety of different distances, not just targeting the Derby, which is run over a mile-and-a-quarter.

BS: Obviously you were very busy recruiting to the stable last week but have you aspirations to recruit horses for Wathnan Racing privately as well?

OT: We'll wait and see. While the selection of horses on offer at Tattersalls was fantastic, we're not beholden to that and it's something we could do.

BS: There were a few jaw-dropping moments during last week's sale and the trade was in keeping with the high demand shown for yearlings during the autumn. What was it like playing in such a vibrant market?

OT: As I have always said, horses are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them. The motivation behind buying a horse, in general, is not just a financial return. Horses give people a lot of pleasure and you could see that at the horses-in-training sale with the horses there going to all different parts of the world. That's testimony to the quality of horses that they were but also the fact that there's a really healthy appetite for horses across the globe which is fantastic to see. It's fantastic that so many people want to buy racehorses and there's an opportunity in every horse and that's how the industry exists. That was plain to see at Tattersalls last week.

BS: We all know about your time at Darley and more recently Twin Hills but this is something completely different. On a personal level, how exciting has it been getting a racing operation off the ground as opposed to a stud farm?

OT: On a personal level, it's a very interesting project for me to be involved in. I've got a good relationship with Mr Al-Hajri so it's nice to be able to help him where I can.

BS: And for those who may not be aware, tell us about your time at Darley. I found it interesting that you spent a few years working with the accountancy firm KPMG before writing to Darley and looking for a break in the bloodstock industry.

OT: I grew up with an interest in horses which came from my parents and grandparents who owned horses. They were involved in the agriculture business, mainly sheep and cattle, and I was fortunate to get a job with Darley in my early 20s. Sheikh Mohammed was very ambitious and I was lucky to be a part of that during my time there. I had a great time working for Darley and am very thankful for the opportunities that I have had. When I moved on to Twin Hills, it came at a time where I thought that, if I was ever going to try something on my own, that was the time. Fortunately Twin Hills came on the market when it did. We have been here at Twin Hills for six years now and it's been very challenging but also very rewarding. We've been very lucky as it's been a buoyant market in Australia and right around the world. The racing industry in Australia is very healthy and I guess our timing has been good in that we have been a part of that. We have been selling horses on a commercial level, standing stallions and looking after people's bloodstock interests, to the extent that Twin Hills is now a reasonably sized operation. I've been exposed to lots of different things in the industry but I have been at it for quite a while now and it's been a career that I've thoroughly enjoyed.

BS: You've clearly had some excellent mentors along the way.

OT: I have been very lucky. When I was working with Darley, I was exposed to amazing people in the industry and that's not just the people who would be perceived as being successful. I've met people at all different levels who have had an impact on me and continue to do so.

BS: It's interesting that you were just 25 when entrusted to set up the Australian arm of the Darley operation. Angus Gold was also quite young when he got the Shadwell job. It just shows that, if you're good enough, you're old enough.

OT: I was lucky that the faith was put in me because that's not an easy decision to give a job like that to a person of that age. In the beginning, it wasn't a major operation; it was just me and another employee with a number of stallions. There was obviously always that chance that it was going to grow into something big, which it has and, hopefully I showed along the way that I was up to the task. It was just really enjoyable to be part of an operation that grew the way it did internationally. This is a global industry and there are opportunities internationally but there are not many operations that have an international presence and I was lucky to work for Darley and get those opportunities. I'll be forever thankful for that.

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Noel Meade: ‘Whoever Wins In The Ring Wins On The Track’

Having been crowned champion National Hunt trainer in Ireland eight times and managed the careers of modern day stars like Harchibald (Fr), Go Native (Ire), Pandorama (Ire) and Road To Riches (Ire), Noel Meade has rightly earned legendary status in that sphere.

However, Meade, who has been training since 1971, has redirected his energies to Flat racing in recent season, a decision that was vindicated when Helvic Dream (Ire) (Power {GB}) provided him with a breakthrough Group 1 success in the Tattersalls Gold Cup at the Curragh last year.

Meade was busy adding to his Flat string at the Tattersalls Ireland September Yearling Sale, which has been lucky for him in the past, alongside Peter Nolan this week. The pair will also be out in force at the Orby and Sportsman's Sale at Goffs next week and the trainer sat down with Brian Sheerin for this week's Q&A.

Brian Sheerin: It's been a busy few days for you at Tattersalls Ireland buying eight yearlings with Peter Nolan. In many ways, things have gone full circle with you and your training operation.

Noel Meade: I got back into the Flat as a small business venture a few years ago and it has worked quite well. A few pals of mine got involved as well and we have had a bit of luck. I have moved away from buying jumpers, but I will still train them–there's 35 to 40 in this winter, but that's down from 145 at one point. That's the most National Hunt horses we've ever had at one stage so we're a good bit down on that these days. It just became increasingly difficult to buy the horses that we were buying to go jumping with. The top horses are making so much money over jumps, you really need a big owner who is prepared to throw money away because, whether they're bought as stores or off the Flat, when they're finished racing, they're worth very little. Whereas with the Flat horses, you can buy a 2-year-old to race and then it becomes a worldwide commodity. Take this year as an example, we have sold horses to Singapore, Hong Kong, America and Britain. That just gives you an idea of the contrast between the two codes. Now, it was easier to sell the Flat horses when my main interest was with the jumpers. You didn't feel as bad about selling the Flat horses when you know you have a big string of jumpers to look forward to in the winter. This year, things are a bit different. It was Ger Lyons who said it to me one day, 'it's all very well for you Noel, you're making it pay but, when you sell those horses, you won't have them to run.' When horses were winning, they were being sold, but that's what we chose to do and we're doing it.

BS: We would have always associated you with buying big and backward yearlings who, if they didn't make it as Flat horses, would more than likely make it as jumpers. It's fair to say your approach to the sales have moved on from that.

NM: No, we've gone the other way now and are buying the horses who can win on the Flat. I bought one horse this morning, a big huge horse, and I'll probably geld him straight away and leave him off. The rest of them should run on the Flat.

BS: Peter Nolan signed for all of those yearlings and your Group 1 winner Helvic Dream, who was also picked up at Part Two of this sale in 2018. How much of a help is he?

NM: He is a huge help. Peter is very much part of the scene with me. Mags O'Toole was my right-hand woman for a long, long time. She used to buy the jumpers with me but she is so busy with Robcour, Eddie [O'Leary] and others now. She was in Keeneland last week so she's just not able to do everything. Peter has slotted into that role and he's been a big help.

BS: One thing that was notable about Irish Champions Weekend was that the winners were spread out among a variety of different trainers. The same can't be said about the top table in National Hunt racing. Was that another factor in your decision to concentrate more on the level?

NM: It was. We bought eight horses at an average of about €25,000 and I would hope that people will own the majority of them. They were bought on spec and I would hope I can find homes for most of them.

BS: And what is your approach to the National Hunt Sales?

NM: Well, to be honest, it has become impossible to even buy the store horses these days. The point-to-point lads, who are great fellas and fabulous trainers, are now prepared to give €100,000 for a store. The likes of Colin Bowe, Denis Murphy and the Doyle brothers, those lads are spending huge money. I would have always thought that giving 25 or 30 grand for a store was plenty. You can't do that anymore. Whereas, you can come here and buy a nice yearling. The ones we bought are perfectly correct and well-balanced horses and they didn't cost too much. I don't know what Goffs is going to be like next week, it sounds like it's going to be crazy, but what I would say is, you can still buy horses on the Flat. You can't buy jumpers.

BS: You've done well with your small-money buys on the Flat in recent years. This place [Tattersalls Ireland] in particular has been lucky for you.

NM: Helvic Dream was a lovely-looking horse. He cost just €12,000 here. Joanna Morgan sold him to us and she was shouting about how good he was and he came at the right price on the day. Layfayette (Ire) (French Navy {GB}) came out of this sale as well but we bought him as a breezer for €54,000. It was Peter who spotted him, actually. He saw him breeze and he was mad about him. We were lucky enough that Patricia Hunt bought him because he wasn't too cheap and it's just great that he worked out as well as he did.

BS: You've enjoyed major success over jumps but it seemed as though you got a great kick out of Helvic Dream providing you with your Group 1 breakthrough in the Tattersalls Gold Cup last year.

NM: I got a great kick out of it. I had horses run well in the Derby, had fillies placed in the Irish 1,000 Guineas, but have never got that Group 1 win before I started training the jumpers. It did annoy me that I didn't have that Group 1 win to my name. So, to get that with Helvic Dream, it meant a lot. Especially with Colin [Keane] riding him, we get on so well, so it was great that he was the man riding it for me. It was just a pity that nobody was there to enjoy it with us due to Covid.

BS: There have been a lot of what we'd perceive as mainly National Hunt trainers who have been concentrating more on their Flat strings in recent seasons. Jessica Harrington and yourself are the obvious examples but even people like Gavin Cromwell have followed suit. That's just a reflection of how difficult it has become to compete at the highest level over jumps.

NM: The amount of horses that are concentrated in just three or four different yards is unbelievable. When I started out, if a fella had 60 or 70 horses, he'd have a big string. Now, loads of people train 100 horses. You wouldn't have been able to do that years ago. The mobile phone has been revolutionary. The likes of Willie Mullins, Gordon Elliott and Joseph O'Brien, those guys have brought things to a new level. Willie has someone to buy them, place them, manage the transport, etc etc. They have become delegators. Even Jessica [Harrington], she has developed a lovely system there with Kate [Harrington] and Richie and Emma Galway, so she has a good team. Gordon is a great pal of mine and he has a great team around him as well. It's no longer viable for one man or woman to do everything. You need a good team around you and some of these big yards just move like clockwork.

BS: What have you made of the market this week?

NM: Horses were buyable. I know this week was second grade compared to the Orby and a lot of people will find it hard to buy next week but we were happy with the business we were able to get done. We've a couple of biggies to buy next week and we may struggle to buy them as everyone is predicting trade to be very strong. I was talking to Clive Cox the other day and he commented about the trade being strong but added that, considering what's happening in the world, it was amazing.

BS: So you won't be approaching the sales season with added caution given what's going on in the world?

NM: If you're going to war, you've got to have troops, and we'll continue to be active at the sales. We'll be at Goffs next week and we'll try to buy a few and, if we meet someone who wants to send us a horse to train, then we'll be delighted to do that as well. I've always said that whoever wins in the sales ring wins on the track. People can say what they like but it's the people with the best horses who are winning on the track. The more you win, the more horses you get, and it builds and builds. Willie is a great example of that. Success breeds success.

BS: You say your yard is now split 50-50 between both codes. If a big owner came through your door in the morning and wanted to send you a top-class Flat horse or a Cheltenham festival contender, which would you pick?

NM: Look it, the attrition rate over jumps is very hard and that's a hard question to answer but my heart will always be in the jumps.

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‘You Can’t Afford To Be Risk Averse In This Game And I’m Not That’

Andrew Black is renowned in the gambling industry, being co-founder of Betfair, one of the biggest exchanges in the world.

However, there is much more to the 59-year-old than being the man who revolutionised betting; he is also hugely passionate about breeding and playing cards.

Black got to the semi-finals of the world Bridge Championships last week and his breeding endeavors at Chasemore Farm continue to go from strength to strength.

He will bid for Group 1 glory at Haydock on Saturday when homebred Brad The Brief (GB) (Dutch Art {GB}) runs in the Sprint Cup while Noble Style (GB) (Kingman {GB}), sold by Chasemore at Book 1 to Godolphin for 525,000gns last year, is well on his way to becoming a top-notch colt after landing the G2 Gimcrack S this season.

From breeding potential superstars like Noble Style to discussing his plans for Chasemore and revealing a recent near-death health scare he suffered last Christmas, Black makes for a fascinating interviewee.

Brian Sheerin: It has been a brilliant year for Chasemore Farm and it could get even better with Brad The Brief in the Sprint Cup on Saturday. You must be looking forward to it?

Andrew Black: I am, assuming we run. It's well known at this stage, he likes a cut in the ground, and I think there's rain forecast for Friday night or Saturday morning at Haydock. He wants it soft, good-to-soft would be okay, but as he's got older, the need for soft or heavy ground has reduced a little because his knees are better now than they've ever been before. In his early days, he suffered from immaturity issues and, as time has gone on, that situation has improved. If the going was good, I would expect him to find things a little hot, but if it's on the soft side, I'd expect him to be in the mix.

BS: He's two-from-two this season, including at Group 2 level. It's interesting that he was in the horses-in-training sale last season. Was that ever a realistic destination for him?

AB: I don't think so. It's interesting that Hugo [Palmer] seems to have done better with him than Tom [Dascombe] did. We have paid a good bit of attention to his knees and it seems to be working. Tom didn't want to campaign him at a high level and was always insisting to us that he was a 90-rated handicapper at best and we should aim quite low with him. Hugo has sorted out an issue with his knees this year and he seems to have progressed. He's definitely moved on this year and to see numbers like 120 beside his name, that's pretty exciting. I think he can do more–when conditions come up right, I think he could pull off a Group 1 win.

BS: Has anything been changed in his training routine to bring about the improvement?

AB: The only thing that has been changed is that, when he came back to Chasemore Farm, we observed that his knees might benefit from being medicated. He's had two separate courses of medication and that's possibly what made the difference as he's moving very well now–he'd always been a bit scratchy. He's a very good-looking horse and is everything that you'd want a sprinter to look like. That little bit more freedom of movement appears to have made the difference.

BS: You have been quoted as saying, “for me, seeing an animal you bred winning a big race is as good as it gets.” Things have been going pretty well of late, not just with horses running in your own colours, but with Noble Style as well.

AB: This year has been amazing for us. You could consider it a breakthrough year. Not only have we had a lot of success on the track, but a lot of the yearlings that we have going to the yearling sale this year are a lot more interesting; we have some good stuff coming through. Noble Style obviously tops the list. He's quite a fiery character and, as he grows up, I think he's going to improve more. He looks like much more than just a 2-year-old to me. His mother [Eartha Kitt (GB) (Pivotal {GB})] didn't do it until she was three. She could have been even better at four but we retired her early as we lost her mother. She won a listed race on her final start at three but, if we kept her in training as a 4-year-old, we'd have got a lot more out of her. I'm certain of that. I was actually out-voted on that at the time, I wanted to keep her in training but we have got Noble Style out of it so I can't complain. I think he's really special. He could be a proper Group 1 horse. I don't even want to say that out loud and I am touching wood as I say it.

BS: What's pretty cool about Noble Style is that the family extends all the way back to Baldovina (GB) (Tale Of The Cat), one of the first horses you've owned. It's a family that you have nurtured.

AB: That's what's really amazing for us. What interested me about Baldovina when I claimed her was, not the black-type on the page, but the fact that there were not many animals in the pedigree full stop. The black-type as a percentage to animals on the page was interesting. Her dam, Baldwina (Fr) (Pistol Bleu {Ire}), was a Group 3 winner, so it was only really Baldovina who had failed. After I claimed Baldovina, her dam went to Japan and produced Jeweler (Jpn) (Victoire Pisa {Jpn}), who won the Japanese 1,000 Guineas, among others. Baldovina amazingly had become a half-sister to a Classic winner after I claimed her for just £17,000. She was one of the first horses I ever bought, so that was a bit of a turn up for the books. We did so well from selling horses out of her that we got her money back many times over. There's always a lot of interest from Japan whenever we go to sell anything from the family. It's an emerging family. We have a lovely Camelot (GB) filly foal, who is a half-sister to Noble Style, and we also have a Frankel (GB) half-sister to him as well. She is now a 3-year-old but unfortunately she could never race but she's a beautiful filly and I think she will produce something for us.

BS: If we didn't know you and know your backstory, we could say that Baldovina was beginner's luck.

AB: In the case of Baldovina, it was beginner's luck, but she should never have been in that claimer in the first place. She was a daughter of a French Group 3 winner who only had the one foal in the UK before she went off to Japan. Not only that, she finished second in her first two maidens before her form fell off the face of a cliff, which happens. She was by Tale Of The Cat, who I felt was an interesting stallion, given it is that Storm Cat line. You don't see many pedigrees as interesting as that in claimers, certainly not fillies anyway, and I think they made a mistake putting her in there. Maybe they didn't appreciate what they had and I was very happy to claim her and take my chance. I thought I made a mistake for a while, and even put her in the sale and bought her back, as I did with Ceiling Kitty as well, but I think that's because I was under a bit of pressure from other people at the time. I had bloodstock advisers who were wondering what I was doing. I had a fair bit of money and they were wondering why I was messing around claiming horses when I should have been buying expensive well-bred fillies. As it happened, she was the most exciting animal that I had at the time, despite the fact I paid quite large sums of money for some very well-related fillies. None of those left the footprint she did at Chasemore Farm. Not by a long way. We got that one right but made other mistakes.

BS: You've obviously got good business instincts but it's interesting that you also trusted your gut in racing and breeding despite the fact you had advisers trying to steer you in another direction.

AB: I would always respect the advice of others. But, at the same time, if you don't learn any lessons and chance your arm every now and again, what is the point? You've got to go out there and do a few crazy things. If you are afraid of making a fool of yourself, you won't achieve much in this game. I never liked looking stupid. Nobody likes to look stupid. But I won't let that stand in my way and, in cases like this, I didn't. I mean, I claimed Beacon Lady (GB) (Haafhd {GB}) after she came last, and she went on to win eight races for us. You can look pretty stupid when you claim a horse after it finishes last but, again, that one worked out. You've got to be prepared to lose money and to get things wrong from time to time. I don't think you can afford to be risk averse in this game and I'm not that. In fact, I'm probably a bit too far the other way. I'm always happy to chance my arm.

BS: I know that you said before that you'd like the broodmare band at Chasemore Farm to be around the 25 mark. I also see that you bought Chachamaidee (Ire) for 200,000gns at the July Sale just gone. What is the philosophy going forward?

AB: If anything, I'm increasing my numbers at the moment. My business life is going very well. Outside of horse racing, I am involved in two industries; one is oil and the other is vaccines. Both of those have had a very good run in the past few years. In years to come, I could have more money to spend, so things have panned out well for me. I think I will probably be spending more at the sales and the plan is to steadily upgrade over time. It was always my plan to upgrade anyway. The idea was, after buying the farm, that I needed to go out there and buy a certain number of broodmares. I needed to stock up, get my processes going and get good people working on the stud. The idea of starting with four or five horses and then building my way up to 30 didn't make much sense. I needed to get up to 30 quite quickly and then upgrade them over time. So that was the plan. That has been playing out and, whether we get good mares like Chachamaidee by going out and buying them or if we breed them ourselves, it doesn't matter to me how we get them. We've got a fantastic team here at Chasemore and we've got a couple of really good clients here as well. We like having the boarders here as it keeps us sensible and it's good to have customers. We're seeing a bit of success, which helps us to believe in ourselves a little bit more.

BS: There's also been a change to your approach to racing. You revealed that you were in the process of selling your share in Manor House Stables around the time that Hugo Palmer was announced as Tom Dascombe's replacement there.

AB: Yes, that's correct. By the time Tom left Manor House, I had decided to leave anyway. The reason why I left is not because I had any problems with Manor House, as I am very happy with what's going on there, but it's just a long way away. We decided to be a bit more supportive of Epsom. The problem with Epsom historically is that the facilities were a little bit weak. That's being resolved and Epsom is becoming a better training centre. Money has been spent on the gallops and there is the potential for more to be spent. It feels like Epsom is on the up and we want to support the training centre, which is right beside where we are. The idea of getting out of your bed at seven o'clock in the morning and going to the gallops at Epsom as opposed to getting out of bed at four o'clock to travel to Manor House also appeals as I am getting old and don't have as much energy as I used to have. The four-hour trip to Manor House is not as attractive as it once was. There's a lot of good people in Epsom as well so I think we'll be a little more involved there. I am always going to send one or two horses to Manor House, just because I want to keep that relationship with Michael [Owen], who's a great mate. We've had a lot of fun together and Hugo is training very well from there now so there's no reason not to send horses there. I just won't be sending the numbers that I used to. We'll have horses around in different places and will have some in Newmarket as well.

BS: But I gather your main interest lies in breeding rather than racing?

AB: Yes, I think so. I have got as much pleasure watching Noble Style winning for Godolphin as if he were mine. I realised that I get an awful amount of pleasure out of watching horses we've bred come out and win. They don't have to run in my colours. The breeding side of things is what has always really interested me. I never interfered too much on the training side of things and always left that up to the trainer to make the decisions. Also, I'm not somebody who particularly likes the limelight in any case. It's not what I am about so, for me, breeding is more interesting.

BS: And what else excites you on the farm at present?

AB: We have a pretty good draft for Book 1 and Book 2 at Tattersalls this year. It will be interesting to see how that goes. We've got a very nice Siyoini (Fr) foal out of a Red Clubs (Ire) mare. He's really quite powerful. We have a Kingman half-brother to Uncle Bryn (GB) (Sea The Stars {Ire}) and he looks pretty interesting. All four of my Book 2 animals are interesting and the pedigrees have improved just this year. We have a sister to Lezoo (GB) [Brogan], for example, by Pivotal (GB), and she is a potentially interesting producer. We have a full-brother to Breege (GB) (Starspangledbanner {Aus}) who is good-looking and there's a number from the Ceiling Kitty (GB) family as well. But, if I had to pick one as being the most exciting on the farm, I'd say it's the Camelot (GB) out of Eartha Kitt (GB). That's a foal and will never be sold. She could be very nice.

BS: You've always had a soft spot for Camelot.

AB: I have and that's just me as a punter. You see certain horses on the racecourse and grow an affection towards them. I absolutely loved Camelot. I thought he was a fantastic physical specimen and always wanted to produce a nice horse by him so I have favoured him over a lot of stallions, in truth. Camelot and Kingman, I have spent a lot of money on those two stallions.

BS: Of course, you were a professional punter at one stage in your life. Has the breeding replaced the punting or do you still bet?

AB: I still bet. I've had a bad year betting for whatever reason. I've had some good years but this year has been terrible and I don't know why. I just can't seem to get moving. Can't get going. Every time I think I'm on a run it just peters out. I've lost loads of money gambling this year, it's just been one-way traffic, but I don't bet like I used to. I still bet in reasonable sizes when I bet but I rarely spend a day betting. I probably place four or five bets a week whereas, in the old days, I'd have been betting heavily every day. I think I'm getting old. I find it a little bit boring and can't follow the form like I used to. The time I would have spent studying the form, I now spend studying the matings and looking through pedigrees. The breeding study has replaced the betting study.

BS: That's twice now that you're after saying that you are getting old.

AB: Well, I had a heart attack last year. It was actually quite a severe heart attack and it happened on Boxing Day. Maybe that's why I feel old. It was a good thing in many respects as I have lost five stone since then and I am doing a bit more exercise now. It has been a good year for me apart from that. I got to the semi-final of the World Bridge Championships last week and knocked out the World Champion in the quarter-finals. That was amazing for me. I take Bridge pretty seriously and play on a team. It's a big thing in my life and I came so close to winning the semi-final. Mentally, I'm in a pretty good place and that showed me that, if I can still compete at the highest level playing Bridge, my brain is still okay. I think I'm in a good place. The heart attack has been a good thing for me. I'm on God knows how many pills now to keep things steady but they're working for me and my blood pressure is low and I'm very calm. I try to stay in that calm place and I spend a lot of time thinking, which is what I most enjoy. Listen, I see myself as getting old but I am perfectly happy with that. I am 59 years of age and the heart attack scared the shit out of me. It was pretty scary to contemplate one's own death so, having failed to lose any weight for a long time, it became a lot easier to make the effort. I got some positive impetus out of that and I just have to build on that now.

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